billcoe

Johndavidjr: if what you are saying is true, it would positively suck for climbers there. However, Jim Donini and Conrad Anker have very high credibility with folks on this site, many of whom know them or know someone who knows them. You have posted this on 3 sites that I have read, and on one of them Jim Donini, what is his title? I think President of the AAC, replied to you and said that it is untrue that they have any interest or are working in anyway in seeing free camping closed at the Gunks, and in fact through their efforts alone have facilitated keeping free camping at a few other places. Perhaps what Winter said above is true, and you have the wrong target. In either case, I appreciate your passion for wanting to keep the area the same, and like everyone on this site wish you and the Gunks locals well in your quest. If there are specific things we can do to assist, like writing a letter of support to any agency or group, please include an address. Regards Bill Full text of Jim Doninis response from Supertopo below: "I feel that intelligent, informed dialogue is important. Rokjox's diatribe is neither intelligent nor informed. He disses the AAC for their role in guide certification Worldwide. Guess what, Rokjox, the AAC has nothing to do with guides certification, the U.S. group involved in that area is the AMGA. Concerning the Grand Teton Climbers ranch, I have to say that there are many people who love the fact that there is a clean, comfortable place in the Tetons replete with cabins, clean toilets, cooking pavilion and library where they can stay and meet other climbers for between 8 and 16 dollars a night. Perhaps Rokjox is upset because the GTCR isn't a great place for loud parties. The AAC does a lot of things for climbers, Rokjox, that don't cost a dime. Talk to the many young climbers who were able to go on trips because they were recipients of AAC grants. Or you might want to talk to indigenous people in the Khumbu region about the reforestation program we were involved with. And for the concerned climber in the Gunks let me say that we are proponents of free camping in climbing areas. The free camping in Indian Creek is still intact to no small degree because of the money the AAC granted to construct 5 Kiosks replete with Reststop dispensers. The BLM and the Friends of Indian Creek will tell you what a positive impact this has had with the solid human waste problem. What we want to do in the Gunks is offer an alternative between free camping with few facilities, and expensive motel rooms, for those who don't have friends in the area to stay with. Our campground will have clean toilets, hot showers and a cooking paviloin for rainy days. There are people who would like to pay a nominal fee for a hot shower after climbing on a sultry day. We have no intention of restricting free camping. The AAC is doing many things to reach out to active rock climbers. We continue to explore areas where we can develop campgrounds as a benefit to climbers. We continue to seek out stewardship opportunities (like Indian Creek) where our propactive intervention can head off potential problems. We continue to work with the Access Fund to help them in their efforts to keep climbing areas open. I invite everyone to come party with us at the first "Craggin Classic" nexy Oct.10/12 in Golden, Co. Come and you will see that the AAC knows how to get down. One last thing- we still need a few host climbers to help us with our first "International Climbing Meet' to be held Oct. 4th thru the 9th in Indian Creek. As of now, we have 40 climbers from 20 countries registered.

That Doug really had his shit together, you sort of sound like him. I think he'd damn near lived on Mt Baker for a few years when he was a kid, he really had saavy. I think I might have guided Hood maybe 3 or 4 times with him. Wish I'd climbed with him more. My regular climbing partner, who was a kickassed tele- boarder himself said Doug was an amazing backcountry skier. I Can't remember his last name, but I remember his face and what a good dude he was. The lighting strike story goes like this: From the summit of Hood, we saw a cloud coming over our way from about the Mt St Helens area, it was pretty dark looking and lower than the upper clouds: and since you never know, despite what the weather dudes are saying, we shortened out summit stay then hightailed it with our group. We passed a group of very experienced folks we sort of knew who they were and they were still going up and close to the summit, said hi as we passed - some Portland Mountain Rescue folks - Rocky Henderson and some others. Just about the Hogsback it got foggy to the point of maybe 30' visablity. Doug caught on to the emergency about to happen, maybe by a 3rd sense, cause he caught the feeling first. With a few flakes coming down, I was bent over helping a woman struggle to get her rain pants over her boots when Doug yells at me "Cut them with your knife lets keep this group tight together and get the F* off NOW!" I whipped out the knife sliced the Goretex just that quick- then we yanked and cranked. We had them all up and hustling and were herding the group just like good sheep dawgs working sheep. Clapping our hands and yelling like cowboys getting the herd to move: imparting the urgency needed to get off. Within 10 min, and we hadn't gone far, it started to sleet followed thereafter by an amazingly loud BOOM that shook the ground. Later in the bar after the dust (so to speak) had settled Doug described the experience as what it must be like to stand inside of a light bulb when someone clicks it on ad off, while a cannon is fired from behind your ear. Now the urgency was felt by the group and the hardest part was to keep them from stampeding and together. The lightbulb experience repeats a couple of more times and then o more booms as sleet continues while we descend. We got down to the top of the Palmer out of the wind, and turns out that all that shit was happening under a cloudcap. We can now see way down there, miles away and it looks clear to the southern mountains. Looking up, nothing still: just fog. No lightning. We discuss a plan of action, figure it was probably bad for the PMR folks, leave 1 guide with the group at the relative safety from the wind of the lee of the hut, then Doug and I start back up to the top again to help those dudes still up there and help co-ordinate a rescue, wondering if the lightning strike might had nailed them all. We'd gone no more than a 1/2 mile as the fog was lifting and viability getting better when we bump right into those folks coming off as we are both following our herds earlier descent tracks. I can't describe how overjoyed we were after a quick nosecount showed them all healthy. They had the incredible version, on the very summit with their ice axes stuck in the snow and the axes just started humming, they looked at each other and went OMG! Then hair starts standing on end, they nevously grab their axes anyway and just start rushing off when the first strike hits.......damn. Must have been something. Ask Rocky. Bet his version is pretty interesting still even after 20 years or whatever it's been. Bet he's got some good stories. But I digress, have a good trip to the mountains Pierce, when it's good, it's very very good, when it's bad: well, it's still pretty good:-) Once you get down anyway.

Next gen Iphone - this month Hold on to your asses.

thats hot

I know. Now Pierce is probably gonna stay home and watch tv instead! Sorry Pierce. One of the most impressive things I've ever seen was on the North side of Mt. Hood. I was up there by myself sans camera (back before these great digital cameras unfortunately), perhaps July or August. I'd just gone walkabout to get out of the heat in the valley, don't remember the month to tell you the truth but it was hotter than hell. I was on top of Barret Spur at like 8900" looking down (I'm guessing the elevation, if any of you geeks want to look it up go ahead, I was on top of it just chillin') I hear a huge noise, look over and down and see this entire ice cliff tottering over on the Coe Glacier. Holy friggan crap. This thing must have been 200' high and had blocks the size of houses, it swept the entire lower slopes like a psylocybin crazed janitor with a broom. Had anyone been heading up Sunshine and been lower down, no way they could have lived. I was the only visible person up there to see it, luckily I suppose. Breathtaking. Listen to Doug's advice though - it's good: "finish your day early, and keep your eye on the horizon." Hey Doug, did we guide together? Mt Hood, huge lighting storm, just missed it? International Climbing Expeditions through Portland Parks and Recreation? You that Doug?

Mose's has spoken. Forgot to mention the tossing of General Shinseki to further bolster his case, but spoken well non-the-less. It was the ignoring of international agreements, opinions and law why I so objected to the invasion originally, when all my countrymen were rooting and hollering go go go! and 100% supportive at our immediate initial success. That didn't influence my thinking, although I admit to being very relieved not to see my countrymen slaughtered. The real question is where to now? What is the best course of action from here. We got suckered punched and here we are NOW. Bailing now is wrong. My opinion only. BTW Ivan, my dad and my wifes dad were both heavy in Europe. You are wrong about them being so supportive of the war. Although my dad passed away when I was 18 months old, I read my fathers letters a few years back, they had already decimated the Luftwaffe and as they had followed the Wehrmacht up the Rhine. Hoping from base to base. When they were so close to Berlin the war was all but ended in Europe, he wrote that they were all so sick of it, and very fearful of being sent to Japan. They were ready to call truce had the politicians let them I suspect. He wrote this knowing that the censors would read it anyway, but apparently didn't give a shit. My grandfather, despite being in the Marines in WW1, said that many were opposed and hated the bastards responsible for sending them there. Nothing has changed.

alpineinsanity: I totally agree on the relax and enjoy comment. It's soo frikkan nice up there. Doug: I don't forget the closet I came. South side of Hood! Imagine that. We were going to camp on the Illumantion saddle and do a couple of routes. We were up early afternoon and all set up tents and sleeping bags, so I thought I'd simply walk over to the crater and peek in cause I was bored (but still tired from carrying all the shit up and was planning on sleep early). Whhhysssssmmm! Rock! I was still below and west of Crater rock. It came off the summit, not the Crater which was still east of me. I heard it, but only caught a glimpse. As it went past so fast, in the air, head height just 20 feet from my head, I turned my head downhill to see a head sized rock that was still airborne and going so fast it was making a whistling noise. It hits the soft snow and bounced back into the air, contnuing it's journey. I'm way below the summit, on nearly flat ground, in summer, in the afternoon, with the soft afternoon snow not doing it's job and cushioning and stopping or slowing the rock at all. Thats what really shocked me. I moseyed back and got my helmet. Not that it would have helped this thing was moving so fast. It was surprising to me given how low angle the slope was, how high to the summit rock band it was, and how soft the deep snow was.

Interesting site John. My thoughts: "Studies have shown that in industrial athletes like firefighters, muscle imbalances, overall weakness, core weakness, hip mobility, and overuse issues all lead to higher injury rates." This is a quote from the link that I think not only is applicable to the rest of us, but may in fact be the reason many of us do not train so hard. It is my reason for sure. The overuse part. Unfortunately, the rest of the things noted could be helped by training. That and time restraints. From my viewpoint, if I am injured while training, and unable to head out, I'd be screwed. Then what would I do, sit and watch TV all summer? I've seen several semi-hard chargers get mobility issues and leave the game altogether rather than continually face the daily pain. Some of them may have taken the pain with them. Friend Marvin was getting up 5.12+ for instance and I haven't seen Brock for a while, but suspect that was his issue for instance, with hip arthritis and mobility issues and the accompanying pain. If I had more confidence that these issues could be resolved via training and not exaggeratedly by it, I could more easily commit to the time. Why injure myself via spending time away from my family, not to mention the monetary cost, when I can just head out, and enjoy the time outside, which in and of itself is a conditioning agent? I'll try and snatch a moment or 2 working on opposition muscles to compensate. That is not to denigrate those who do commit the major money, time and risk to it. I'm sure that to succeed and via additional training go from just solid, to amazing and Uber strong, is a reward as well. I only speak for myself here. For guys like John and Marcus, they work hard at real jobs and want to abruptly head out and go climb kick-assed hard ice mid-winter with a guy like Bryan who living over there and is running routine laps on steep ice, this may be their only solution, and it works well for them. Getting conditioned for hanging on tools, when there is no ice around, must be accomplished by training. The same can be said for many other climbing niches as well.

I was thinkin it was a natural high Will, but now that you mention it....:-)

Good report Alpinsanity. To clarify it for Pierce, how warm was it when you were there? Also, how high up the mt were you - that is, I mean, where the rockfall started? Were you pretty high up before you'd be in the rockfall zone and have to be concerned? I've never been on Jeff in July, and Pierce is gonna need that info more than anything I'd suspect. If ya have to be there in July Pierce, bet this July will be as good as any given the incredible amount of snow in Detroit/Idana area which probably hit Jeff head on this winter. The National guard was called out to help shovel people out of their homes just 2/3 months ago over there when it snowed so hard everyone got trapped inside their homes in Idana. Thats never happened before. Jeff park glacier is one of the best spots to just hang out and relax too. BTW, I'd do it in a day if I were you, just start early, it will still be a long day, but as you'll be on top of the snow you should be fine (bring headlamps) unless you're intent on hanging out and want a high camp, which would be awesome, (mostly cause I'd be too lazy to carry the extra gear up there), it's pretty long steep.

Yeah, the north ridge is the one called Jeff park Glacier? Great route. I stopped climbing Mt's 20 years ago and forget a lot of this stuff. I'll never forget popping out of my tent on Jeff Park Glacier in @1972 to cock my leg and seeing what were the largest stars I've ever seen, before or since. I woke my bro up and said - come look at this....we both marveled for some time in silence looking at the sky. Almost 30 years later, at 18,000 feet in the Himalayas, we're standing there in the dark, again, and bro mentions it. "Remember the stars from JPG that night?" Damn, pretty magical place. One more thing, and please do not think I am dissing you here, cause I can be pretty caustic even when I feel my intentions are good: the North Side route may be one of the knarliest on the Mt, please, I don't know your experience level, but please...please....focus on the climbing, and not on the goal of summiting, which is, after all, merely a side benefit of being in the Mts with your bros. If it doesn't feel right, back off and do another route, or do it some other day. No hits no runs no errors but ya live for another day and had an experience. Be PROCESS oriented, not GOAL oriented.

You must be referring to this classic. gxRXoOEJEnQ

What he said: but if he doesn't want your gear send it to me, I can live with the guilt!

What route? West face couilar ya might (probably) get killed or beaned by a rock coming straight down from the pinnacle. It's a great route to climb if you're not getting nailed by rocks and July will be warm. North Ridge may be do-able safely in July yet. I've only done it in winter rimmed over or snowed in and it's awesome. I heard if your on the bare rock there, that the rock is a bit loose, but only class 4. The crevasse up there might be real fun that time of year too. That's my thoughts anyway: what route ya talkin?

Well it was funny when you were talkin' riding the escalator backasswards on your face and it stayed funny till you started talkin' about how bad your arm is: then it wasn't funny anymore - Ouch. Then it got funny again when Builder solicited your climbing gear. Then it got sad when I started thinking of your asshole employer, sounds like it's time to get a good employer, bet you can get more money AND healthcare with the next one if you're careful: anyhow, good luck with all the medical stuff too.

Shit I must be old and feisty. When I google Gnar off and this arrives courtesy of (http://gnartown.com/blog/) "June 5th, 2008 by the gnarbot I’ve been rocking the CLE STMR plates on my car for nearly two years now. Now the BMV has decided that they are “inappropriate” and has issued an “immediate recall” of the plates. If you can get Cleveland Steamer out of CLE STMR, good for you. If you know a Cleveland Steamer is the act of taking a shit on someone’s chest then you have no reason to be offended by that on a license plate. In fact it has brought joy to many people, like the guy that nearly got in a wreck because he was trying to take a picture of the plate with his camera phone while driving…classic. Anyways, this is its farewell tour. We made a good run at it. Goodbye Steamer! Who's first to comment "Holy Shit?" Cleveland Steamer:-) I must be living a sheltered life like the squares of the motor V dept! This dudes probably been laughing his ass off as he drives around and folks point at his plates!

Interesting: I was in the gorge over 10 years ago in the woods by myself "drinkin and chillin" after a long day out. Spaced and it got dark quick on me. Had to damn near crawl out as there was NO moon and NO light at all, but the interesting part of all this was that there was a trail of phosphorescent spots on the trail. The first one I saw, I reached over like WTF?! is that?! I reached over, grabbed it, and my brain immediately dropped it in shock and revulsion as I touched the soft body grub. Once I got over my surprise that they were only soft/squishy body living insects on the trail, navigation by not stepping on them was relatively easy and very interesting. It was as if the fireflys of midwest-America area had showed up, got stuck in the on position and fell to the forest floor where they lay there to light my way. Never saw anything like it again, must have hit that time right on the money where some species was transitioning, pupating, metamorphosing, mating or something like it.

Is this because you are contributing so much shit Trask, that the site is already full of your bullshit and antagonism it needs no more?? Inquiring minds are curious. Like this unprovoked beauty: Any chance you can provide a link to any climbing pic or Trip report you've done?

Good news, as this good news will affect a lot of us. " Alcohol cuts risk of developing rheumatoid arthritis People who drink alcohol are less prone to the sometimes crippling disease called rheumatoid arthritis compared with non-drinkers, according to a Scandinavian study published on Wednesday. People who had a moderate alcohol consumption were 40 and 45 percent less likely to develop rheumatoid arthritis compared with people who did not drink or drank only occasionally, it found. Among those who had a high consumption, the risk was reduced by 50 and 55 percent respectively. Most surprising was that the biggest benefits were seen among smokers with a genetic profile known to make them vulnerable to the disease. Rheumatoid arthritis affects between 0.5 and one percent of people, according to figures for the industrialised world. It happens when the immune system attacks the joints, causing inflammation and damage to the cartilage and bone. A mixture of environmental factors, especially smoking, and genetic heritage are the deemed causes of the disease. The authors, led by Henrik Kaellberg of the Institute of Environmental Medicine at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, note previous research that suggests alcohol interferes with inflammatory processes that trigger heart disease. Doctors advising patients about the disease say they should urge smokers to kick tobacco, but not necessarily to stop consumption of alcohol in moderate quantities. High consumption of alcohol, while apparently protective for rheumatoid arthritis, is itself linked with many other health problems. The paper appears in Annals of the Rheumatic Diseases, a specialist journal published by the British Medical Association (BMA). " Link

Ditto: totally amazing Erden! Welcome back....for now:-)

Great stuff! Nice TR and pics! Thank you for sharing them.

Yeah I have been listening to her! Man, what a nasty lil girl, I love it. Listening to Concrete Blonde too. Nice call! ______________________________________________________________ "............... I cheated myself Like I knew I would I told ya, I was trouble You know that I'm no good Upstairs in bed, with my ex boy, He's in a place, but I cant get joy, Thinking of you in the final throes, this is when my buzzer goes ................ Sweet reunion, jamaica and spain We're like how we were again I'm in the tub, you're on the seat Lick your lips as I soak my feet Then you notice little carpet burn My stomach drops and my guts churn You shrug and it's the worst Who truly stuck the knife in first I cheated myself like I knew I would I told ya I was trouble, you know that I'm no good I cheated myself, like I knew I would I told ya I was trouble, yeah ya know that I'm no good" Oh man, hot stuff.

Take care all, life is an eyeblink.

I admit that I was angry when we ran in and attacked fait acompli like Leroy Jenkins on the video game. Stupid and in bad form for international agreements and stupid to ignore the rest of the world. Damn dumb. Poor form. But that was then, and this is now. We already spent the money and the lives and are now so close, that we need to finish the job then get out is my thought. What Scott said is on the money: it's not Vietnam and it's not WW2. -true Story- This happened to me personally, this isn't a slanted news report - no extra elaboration is added or needed, it is truth, really happened. I'll tell it like it happened. I was down at my local park, 1/2 a block from my home, approx mid 1990's. There was a small group of bronzed skinned dark-haired middle-eastern looking men, @10 or so, playing on the deep green well mowed grass with a soccer ball, messing around. I did not know their country of origin, and the language was not familiar to me. I crowded closer, now interested. Paying closer attention, I would have guessed they were Turks, but I knew they were not. Perhaps Aremenians? I thought not, but had never been to Armenia and was not positive. I spotted a younger white American chick, sort of a hippy looking gal with the group, so as is my personal custom, I went right up and asked. "Hi, I'm curious, where are these guys from?". "They are Kurds", she replies, "from Iraq". Hmmm, we'd just been overthere in 1991 fighting a war. "Why are they here in the US", I ask, raising an eyebrow. "They had worked for the US government", she said. "Why are they here?" i asked. "If they stayed there their lives would be at risk. As it is, they are afraid that their families over there may be suffering now for their choices." She responded. "CIA?", I bluntly suggested. "I can't say, I'm just sort of a liaison to help them around over here", she replys. I figure CIA for sure. I'm standing there checking them out, being ignored by the dudes, when she says: " Yeah, some of them have had it pretty tough"............see that guy over there", she nods her head in the direction of an older man, maybe 40, maybe 60 year old fella somberly standing off to the side and not participating in the game. "He was in his village when an Iraqi government plane flew over..........dumping poisonous gas down......, almost everybody in his village was killed: .... including all of his family and friends,.......... he and a very few others in the village had gas masks ........... and they survived". "Jesus Christ" I quietly whistled through my teeth, thinking I couldn't imagine what it would be like to see all of my loved ones gassed to death right in front of me, and to survive with that memory. We were done talking. I watched and marveled in sadness and sober silence for a few minutes, wondering what other horrors these guys had witnessed, then walked away silently, carrying that sad memory to this day. So this is what I think, and no amount of articals and blathering opinions will change my mind unless they start presenting facts and not inuendos: Cause I know some facts...personally. Fuck Saddam Hussein that evil fucking bastard, we should have killed that motherfucker every day for eternity may he rot in hell being sodomised daily sans vasoline by the Devil himself that lying murdering son of a bitch. I think that the loved ones of those Kurds and also the Shia massacred in the south of Iraq whom are still being uncovered in mass unmarked graves would have a different opinion than you apparently do. Do you not believe Israel was next on that crazy pricks tick list of neighbors to attack? Sadamm routinely paid off the families of suicide bombers who killed civilians - $10,000 a pop. Each time. The 1/2 a million or so Jews not gassed in the next attack will hopefully live lives of quiet peace because of our countries actions. To those who want to deflect the discussion by thinking that this is intellectual blather of substance:(it isn't, it is just stupidity) by saying "yeah, but what about the US actions is WW2 dropping the bomb, we're horrible people", or why did we allow the Rwanda slaughters to occur, we're such horrible people", to you I say: STFU YOU SIDESTEPPING FUCKING IGNORANT WUSSY WANKING IDIOTS. Those are another discussion altogether, for a different place and time.

I have a personal story I want to share with you.