Buckaroo

What's wrong Fairweather? Stooping to the crude name-calling? I thought you asked me to avoid the personal attack and assumed you would do the same? When I said "forums"(plural) I was talking the internet in it's entirety. If you're curious, which I sort of doubt, go to Google groups and search the word. like alt.politics.bush or alt.fan.rush-limbaugh. Try Google vid also, or YouTube and AOL political and read the comments sections. You'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

Well the jet thing is another point demonstrating the typical bush/McCain incompetence and privilege. How many regular pilots would be allowed to keep their wings in the Navy with that many broad daylight crashes? Let's see Robert E. Lee was second in his class. Grant the Butcher 21st out of 39 Patton 46th out of 109 Eisenhower upper half all of these could at least be arguably average, especially considering the small numbers in the classes. BTW, thanks Hugh for doing my work for me. McCain 5th out of 899. You guys really want to argue this is even "average" much less "above"?

ROTFLMFAO!!! the intelligence isn't questioned, it's statement of fact, in the bush-boy's case by example of direct quotes. How exactly are you going to "debunk" historical quotes Akhalteke? Seriously some of these mistakes are like a 4th grade level. You can really tell in his speeches when they keep them at about that 4th grade level he does fine, when you go above it that's when he gets into trouble, even with a teleprompter. And off the cuff on anything substantial, forget it. It's not only lack of knowledge, it's downright stupidity. Civics: He doesn't even know the definition of the branch of government that poppie's money and name bought him. "I am mindful of the difference between the executive branch and the legislative branch. I assured all four of these leaders that I know the difference, and that difference is they pass the laws and I execute them." "The legislature's job is to write law. It's the executive branch's job to interpret law." "You see, the Senate wants to take away some of the powers of the administrative branch." When did you first learn Akhalteke that social security was part of the federal government? I think with me it was about 14 or 15 yo. Imagine not knowing until you were in your mid 40's. Imagine being governor of a state or president and not knowing that? "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." geography "We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." grammar(humorously most often when discussing education issues!) "You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test.'' "Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?" "Reading is the basics for all learning." "Then you wake up at the high school level and find out that the illiteracy level of our children are appalling." vocabulary: "They misunderestimated me." "office of strategery" "We cannot let terrorists and rogue nations hold this nation hostile or hold our allies hostile.'' lack of reading: "One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures." "Bill wrote a book at Yale. I read one." "I glance at the headlines just to kind of get a flavor for what's moving. I rarely read the stories, and get briefed by people who are probably read the news themselves." general base stupidity: "We thought we were protected forever from trade policy or terrorist attacks because oceans protected us." "I think we agree, the past is over." "It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it." "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." "Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country." A formal education can't hurt although it doesn't gurantee success, but intelligence has everything to do with being an effective and successful leader. We have 8 years of proof about what an unintelligent leader can mean. It's funny Akhalteke but I don't remember any of these multiple source quotes ever being refuted or "debunked", you can be the first if you'd like.

Would you tell me where Patton and Grant graduated? How about Lee? I suppose you were going somewhere with this. Would you like to expound? LOL, you really want to compare Patton to McCain? from wiki-p "Education: Patton attended Virginia Military Institute for one year, where he rushed VMI's chapter of the Kappa Alpha Order. He then transferred to the United States Military Academy. The Academy compelled him to repeat his first "plebe" year after doing poorly in mathematics. He repeated his plebe year with honors, and was appointed Cadet Adjutant (the second highest position for a cadet) eventually graduating in 1909 and receiving his commission as a cavalry officer." I'm not saying schooling guarantees success in life, nor that poor schooling guarantees failure, just that it usually means a better chance. And when we look at McCain's later performance all I really see is a repeat of the same bush style purchase of position, because intelligence isn't a requirement for political office.

...and by self-described "liberals" in every instance. that's just flat out wrong dude, please post a link to someone who is a liberal or dem and is using it in a derogatory fashion, not a "descriptive of repugs" fashion as Hugh was. I love the "repugs are racist" argument, it's such an easy win, and the current climate makes it even easier.

this post is so wrong, don't know where to start. Have a feeling this will be an ongoing effort. GW was about our most incompetent "president" ever. He failed every business he was handed by his silver spoon life. The Texas governorship is largely a ceremonial position and yet he managed to leave Texas in the worse shape it had been in decades, economy, crime, pollution, schools. And he did pretty much the same thing at the national level. "being able to hire strong and intelligent people to key posts" this is about the most inaccurate statement of your entire post. I've been directly exposed to cronyism. Bush is/was NOTHING BUT an advocate of the crony appointment. From Brownie to Gonzales and everyone in between, no real experience/intelligence for the position, just stupidity and brown-nosing ass-kissing crooks. It's also about the morals (or lack of) when it comes to leadership. Leaders at these levels don't have as much to do with things directly as they do by projection. If the leader is a corrupt greedy liar then it tends to attract and bring out that in those around him. It's also about intelligence. From any two individuals regardless of experience, if one is a complete idiot and the other highly intelligent, who are you going to pick when it comes to this level? And why pray tell do the repugs always pick the dim bulbs? I think the reason is because the corps that own the repugs lock-stock-and-barrel know that stupid people make better puppets. "the federal government wants to control social security like it's some kind of federal program" and this was AFTER he was selected pres by the supreme court. John McCain graduated 5th from the bottom in a class of 899 and only got into and through flight school because of admiral daddy pulling strings. Any regular person with McCain's performance wouldn't have got even close to a jet. Remind you of anyone, like the dunce that just gave us eight years of ruin? Obama, worked his way up from the bottom, a Magna cum laude doctorate and first black prez of the Harvard Law Revue. Sure he's corrupted just by the fact that he got this far within a corrupt system but he is DEFINITELY the lesser of two evils for a number of reasons, the biggest one being INTELLIGENCE.

All of the owners of the 5 big conglomerates that own the "free" media are repug. It's not free, it's corporate monopoly owned. The only real free media is the internet. How exactly is Obama going to curtail that? Please provide a link. When did Obama say he was going to take your guns? Please provide a link. Is it going to be anything like when bush/cheney's FEMA and Blackwater actually confiscated everyone's guns, including white upscale homeowners, in the aftermath of Katrina?

It's not how you say something Fairweather, it's what you're saying. "slavery" and oppression continued after the Civil war because the bigoted whites didn't give up, they just went underground. And with the first black candidate for prez we can see after about 150 years they STILL haven't given up on their racism and bigotry. During the dozen or so years I've been posting on internet forums I've never seen the N word used in greater numbers or with greater vehemence than with this election cycle.

Some countries that have federal control are kicking our ass. What's the deal with you repugs? Do you think we need more or less control of say the banking sector?

""When the map is complete, I'd like to have at least as early as the 1970s. Any thoughts?"" If you're going that far you might as well go all the way. In the entire climbing history of Rainier there were only 17 deaths prior to 1970. See "The Challenge of Rainier" by Dee Molenaar. Very good info in this book, all incidents located pretty accurately. Another good resource is probably "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" See the mountaineers library for all issues. Most incidents are easy to locate, all you need is a topo map of the routes and the knowledge of what route they were on and the elevation.

The guy worked at Timex R&D, he was wearing a prototype time-shift watch.

Good effort, looks like a tricky project. You need more resolution if you want to place location accurately because of the crowding. Maybe even different resolution break-outs for crowded areas. Maybe the incident with the 11 climbers you could make just one x and have it link to 11 separate links on the sidebar. Many of the locations are way off, maybe get with a climbing ranger. You could get closer just by going off the altitude. ""Kleinschmidt was climbing together with Keeta Owens and Cornelius Beilharz, who both neither survived the climb."" I take it English is not your major, maybe "neither of whom" would work. ""Suffered fatal asthma attack on Emmons Glacier at 9,500 feet."" Is an asthma attack classified as an "accident"? For this thing to be more useful you would want to cover all years. Interesting though, looks like Liberty Ridge has the highest rates by far.

Hey where's the harness and rope, don't you know it's dangerous to free-solo ladders?

The real dope on McCain and the Keating scandal [video:youtube]

Why, because it didn't jive with your lifelong corporate media propaganda indoctrination? Zeitgeist now has a SEQUEL

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CASCADE CLIMBERS . COM !!!!!!!!!!!!

I doubt they're easy to make, that's chromoly, specialty item, expensive material, difficult to work these should be possible to find used it would cost way more to have custom made than finding them used

both and neither

the Dimetrodon was an apex predator who ruled the world for about 15 MIL years during the Permian Period. Man has only been here 1.25 MIL? maybe their spirits are still trying to rule, they do have the smallish brain in common with the queen and the bushie blue bloods.

Who cares what the AAJ thinks, this place is a climbing mecca. And I think use is increasing. I see a lot more climbers everywhere I go, just look at Index for instance. At the UW rock there's just as many new climbers as there ever was if not more, and their all just as psyched. in a dozen years we've gone from a single one story gym to two multistory with more members than ever. Hell we originated the climbing gym. This place has a better variation of different types of climbing than anywhere in the states. For example, multi-pitch rock, alpine rock, BIG relief glaciated mountains like Rainier/Stuart/Slesse, mixed alpine, waterfall ice(if not here then nearby) and quite a bit of volume of each. It is also more central to more nearby(driving distance) world class areas than anywhere else, for example Yosemite, Squamish, and Canadian Rockies. Sure most of the FA plums have been picked but that doesn't really affect the majority of climbers. And there is still huge things being done from the average climbers perspective, like Mox and the traverses. Plenty of stuff to challenge the average climber for a lifetime. Who cares about all the hype, there's PLENTY of good stuff here to do. It also has just about the best scenery and remoteness for the lower 48, places like Lake Serene, WA pass, Cascade pass, the Pickets. And there have been quite a few big guns based out of here, Like Andy DeKlerk, Steve Swenson, Jon Krakauer, Greg Child, Ed Viesturs, Colin Haley, just to name a few. Hey AAJ, this place SUCKS, so just STAY the HELL AWAY, we don't need you crowding our crappy climbs.

Now there's five!!

Zeitgeist is good but the rabbit hole goes even deeper than that. Police State Road Map The Secret Rulers of the World

I seriously doubt it's other climbers. As far as cheap camping goes Index is sort of like a little Yosemite, which has a similar gear theft problem. The camping spots on the bank along the river there are host to all kinds of people. Gear has even been stolen at the base of the lower wall. The only places you ever hear of stolen gear are in close proximity to the general public. I got broken into at the Alpental ski area lower lot, lost about $1,000 worth of climbing gear. Ever since then my vehicles have all had alarms, that and never leave valuables in sight. That deters 99% of the pukes. Knock on wood, nothing stolen since.

No, not the one in the photo, the one you come down from the ridge on.

Some additions and alternatives to your Crossover descent route. The peak you have labeled as "Wooded Stump" is "Stumpy Hill" according to McLane. The sketchy grassy traverse ends up at the bottom of the raps/start of the goat trail. There's an alternative to the 200M bushwack section at the end. Here's the written description. From the end of the scree descent below Stumpy Hill, at the bottom of the lowest rock buttress of Stumpy Hill (5,200') head East. Go through a granite boulder field with short cliffs above, then past a large flat granite slab where the slope starts to descend. Pass the slab on skiers right and pick up a brook/drainage, may be dry in late season. Follow the drainage ESE down through steep relatively open forest for about 1,000'(distance) to the top of a tree canopied rock gully(4,400'). Take this steep 4th class rock gully(possible rockfall potential) straight down to the center of the basin below the direct start of NEB of Slesse. Cross the basin and take the climbers trail back to the memorial plaque, but be aware you may be crossing the run-out zone of the bypass hanging glacier if it is still large. As you approach the direct start of the NEB you can see this hidden rock gully from the basin. On Google Earth or Map you can see the boulder field, slab, and gully, but the rock in the gully does not show. Looking back on the start of the Crossover descent, the route goes through the notch right above the highest snow.