Buckaroo

I doubt they're easy to make, that's chromoly, specialty item, expensive material, difficult to work these should be possible to find used it would cost way more to have custom made than finding them used

both and neither

the Dimetrodon was an apex predator who ruled the world for about 15 MIL years during the Permian Period. Man has only been here 1.25 MIL? maybe their spirits are still trying to rule, they do have the smallish brain in common with the queen and the bushie blue bloods.

Who cares what the AAJ thinks, this place is a climbing mecca. And I think use is increasing. I see a lot more climbers everywhere I go, just look at Index for instance. At the UW rock there's just as many new climbers as there ever was if not more, and their all just as psyched. in a dozen years we've gone from a single one story gym to two multistory with more members than ever. Hell we originated the climbing gym. This place has a better variation of different types of climbing than anywhere in the states. For example, multi-pitch rock, alpine rock, BIG relief glaciated mountains like Rainier/Stuart/Slesse, mixed alpine, waterfall ice(if not here then nearby) and quite a bit of volume of each. It is also more central to more nearby(driving distance) world class areas than anywhere else, for example Yosemite, Squamish, and Canadian Rockies. Sure most of the FA plums have been picked but that doesn't really affect the majority of climbers. And there is still huge things being done from the average climbers perspective, like Mox and the traverses. Plenty of stuff to challenge the average climber for a lifetime. Who cares about all the hype, there's PLENTY of good stuff here to do. It also has just about the best scenery and remoteness for the lower 48, places like Lake Serene, WA pass, Cascade pass, the Pickets. And there have been quite a few big guns based out of here, Like Andy DeKlerk, Steve Swenson, Jon Krakauer, Greg Child, Ed Viesturs, Colin Haley, just to name a few. Hey AAJ, this place SUCKS, so just STAY the HELL AWAY, we don't need you crowding our crappy climbs.

Now there's five!!

Zeitgeist is good but the rabbit hole goes even deeper than that. Police State Road Map The Secret Rulers of the World

I seriously doubt it's other climbers. As far as cheap camping goes Index is sort of like a little Yosemite, which has a similar gear theft problem. The camping spots on the bank along the river there are host to all kinds of people. Gear has even been stolen at the base of the lower wall. The only places you ever hear of stolen gear are in close proximity to the general public. I got broken into at the Alpental ski area lower lot, lost about $1,000 worth of climbing gear. Ever since then my vehicles have all had alarms, that and never leave valuables in sight. That deters 99% of the pukes. Knock on wood, nothing stolen since.

No, not the one in the photo, the one you come down from the ridge on.

Some additions and alternatives to your Crossover descent route. The peak you have labeled as "Wooded Stump" is "Stumpy Hill" according to McLane. The sketchy grassy traverse ends up at the bottom of the raps/start of the goat trail. There's an alternative to the 200M bushwack section at the end. Here's the written description. From the end of the scree descent below Stumpy Hill, at the bottom of the lowest rock buttress of Stumpy Hill (5,200') head East. Go through a granite boulder field with short cliffs above, then past a large flat granite slab where the slope starts to descend. Pass the slab on skiers right and pick up a brook/drainage, may be dry in late season. Follow the drainage ESE down through steep relatively open forest for about 1,000'(distance) to the top of a tree canopied rock gully(4,400'). Take this steep 4th class rock gully(possible rockfall potential) straight down to the center of the basin below the direct start of NEB of Slesse. Cross the basin and take the climbers trail back to the memorial plaque, but be aware you may be crossing the run-out zone of the bypass hanging glacier if it is still large. As you approach the direct start of the NEB you can see this hidden rock gully from the basin. On Google Earth or Map you can see the boulder field, slab, and gully, but the rock in the gully does not show. Looking back on the start of the Crossover descent, the route goes through the notch right above the highest snow.

Here's the technical report as a pdf Apparently the cable broke at the lower attachment point, and it has a plastic sheath that makes inspection difficult and concentrates bending at the joint. 3980.pdf

Good topic. I think maybe it relates to time. Many first ascentionists are full time climbers so can afford to take all the time it takes to find a route and climb it. Many others of us only have one good weekend a month (if that) and don't have time to mess around if we want to get things done. I've found even with the most beta that sometimes a complex climb is better the 2nd time around because you figure things out that aren't in the beta. Just a for instance, the Slesse crossover descent. If I hadn't done 1/2 of the crossover in reverse the weekend before it would have been a bushwack nightmare to do it straight up after the climb. With this new beta that wouldn't be necessary. Another for instance, Liberty Crack, no where does the beta tell you that you can easily retreat with a single 60M because the stations are fixed at 30M for the first half of the climb. So a lot of people end up hauling an extra rope for no good reason the first time they climb it. But it also holds true you'll never hone great routefinding skills by not trying stuff out for yourself. And slim details also may work as a filter to keep people away that maybe shouldn't be on something too dangerous/difficult anyway. Sort of like a scary approach just to get to the base of something. The worst thing about guide book beta is when it's wrong.

You need a single wall tent, how about the Black Diamond "One shot" at 2 lbs 5 oz. or the Lightsabre bivy at 1 lbs 9 oz. LINK LINK the Terra Nova looks nice though

That was a Faux News test to see how effective their propaganda machine was. I'm sure they conducted a survey right after the "faked moon landings" to see if the Fairweather types ate it up or not.

So I named one conspiracy theory 911, and you can't answer all the posts about the level of repug corruption, or the fact that the repugs are running the vote machines, because those are facts not theories. Do you deny that Reagan had more convictions than any other prez? Do you deny that Cunningham was convicted for the largest amount of bribes ever? You want Jamie Gorelick? She earned $26 MIL at Fannie Mae over a period of SIX years. Our current treasury secretary (imagine a fox hen-house scenario) is Paulson REPUBLICAN, he earned $38 MIL at Goldman Sachs in ONE year. And his "bailout" (corporate welfare) package benefits Sachs more than any other firm... imagine that. Sure I can name many corrupt dems, my point is I can name more repugs and to a greater degree. Like I said it's all a matter of degree. But not to people like you, oh no. To you the only thing that matters is the "R" after their name, if they have that they are A-OK. You state computer voting is wrong, you state party connected officials are wrong, but when faced with the fact your party does it worse, we don't hear from you again. I'll say straight up, get rid of all the crooked dems. I do not support crooked politicians unless, A- I have no other choice, and B- they are the lesser of two evils. You still haven't answered the question of your stance on the bailouts? It's up to $1.4 Trillion now. Maybe because it's your party of "fiscal responsibility" and "small government" (BIG LIES) that's doing the dirty deed? ROTFLMFAO!!!!!

NICE TR and PICS, most people don't even know about the macro setting My "were's the bear" pic is a little more obvious (south slopes of J-berg) [img:left]http://cascadeclimbers.com/plab/data/500/medium/J-BERG-BEAR.JPG[/img]

Who ran Freddie and Fannie into the ground? Even as he and she took 90 million and 26 million dollar bonuses respectively? Who pressed for a gross relaxation of lending standards? Do some homework and let me know. You didn't answer the question, are you down with it? Is this what you represent? It is certainly what your party represents. Once again, I agree they are pretty much all corrupt. There's just a few dems and even fewer repugs that aren't. It's the degree of corruption, the repugs are more corrupt than the dems. The key banking degreg bills were by Gramm REPUBLICAN which I've already posted. Still waiting for your list of corrupt dems that equals or exceeds the list I've already posted of corrupt repugs. Actually still waiting for several replies from you, you seem to disappear when the going gets tough. The $700 BIL should bring the annual deficit to OVER $ONE TRILLION. How's that for the party of fiscal responsibility ehh Fairweather? Sort of looks like a big big lie to me.

LOL, you haven't engaged me yet. Ad-hominem isn't engagement...

A mountain in Alaska. The weather conditions under which I prefer to climb. seriously Fairweather are you down with all the mortgage ripoff? Does it please you we are going to "bail" the golden parachute boys out with borrowed taxpayer dollars? Do you hold up and stand for that? Do you really want stupid people as president? Do village idiots tickle your fancy?

and you my friend are with the 10% fringe kooks on that one

Fairweather. Did you know that about 90% of Americans think the JFK killing was not as the military/industrial/media complex insists to this day that it is? And thanks to the internet the 911 scam is coming around quicker than the JFK killing? More than 50% of New Yorkers suspect 911 is not as the government says it is. They were at ground zero, are they fringe kooks? Pretty much the same numbers in most of the developed world (outside of the US), are they fringe kooks? Patriots question 911 140+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials 540+ Engineers and Architects 120+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals 300+ Professors Question 9/11 210+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members 170+ Artists, Entertainers, and Media Professionals Are they ALL "fringe kooks" Fairweather?

Completely agreed. But things like the Rezko deal point to a candidate who might not be as different from the same 'ole as he tends to portray himself. Not that different from a guy who lied to the nation to bring us to war? Who spied on us illegally for most of his term? Who instituted a state sponsored program of kidnapping and torture? OK. I guess my different is really different from your different. Have to agree, their all corrupt to a certain degree, it's the amount of corruption you have to look at. Clearly the repugs are more corrupt. You can look at it from a number of different ways, like... largest number of people convicted of crimes in a prez admin... Reagan REPUBLICAN largest dollar amount of bribery conviction of a single congressperson. Duke Cunningham REPUBLICAN largest corrupt bankruptcy.... Enron REPUBLICAN largest number of congresspeople tied to a convicted lobbyist. Abrhamoff REPUBLICANS Largest mortgage fraud in country's history... Phil Gramm REPUBLICAN Republicans are also the biggest hypocrits. Like McCain REPUBLICAN after 20 some years of supporting deregulation and bush says he's going to change things. Does that mean he's going to change himself? Or like the Treasury Secretary Paulson? (REPUBLICAN) Now he's going to fix the mortgage mess, wait a minute, didn't he just come from Goldman Sachs making $38MIL in one year? Weren't they right in the thick of all this corruption? So now one of their board members is going to "fix" the mess? ROTFLMFAO!!!!! Fairweather, please make us a list of Dems who are as corrupt or worse and then we'll talk. Don't forget the only choice you get is the lesser of two evils. Don't choose wrong.

The Subprime Mess and Phil Gramm: An Experiment in Deregulation June 24, 2008 - 04:12 PM In 1933, a few years following the stock market crash, Congress passes the Glass-Steagall Act, in hopes that regulating banks will help prevent market instability, particularly amongst Wall Street banks. The purpose of the act is to separate commercial banks that focus on consumers from investment banks, which deal with speculative trading and mergers. The Glass-Steagall Act provided the proper oversight and entity separation that would prohibit banks and other financial companies from merging into giant trusts (conflict of interests)... In 1999, former Republican Senator Phil Gramm (who is, incidentally, Senator John McCain's economic adviser and cochairs his presidential campaign) set out to completely gut the Glass-Steagall Act, and did so successfully, replacing most of its components with the new Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act: allowing commercial banks, investment banks, and insurers to merge (which would have violated antitrust laws under Glass-Steagall). Sen. Gramm was the driving force behind the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, as he had received over $4.6 million from the FIRE sector (Finance, Insurance and Real Estate donations) over the previous decade, and once the Act passed, an influx of "megamergers" took place among banks and insurance and securities companies.... Shortly after George W. Bush was elected president, Congress and President Clinton were trying to pass a $384 billion omnibus spending bill, and while the debates swirled around the passage of this bill, Senator Phil Gramm clandestinely slipped a 262-page amendment into the omnibus appropriations bill titled: Commodity Futures Modernization Act. It is likely that few senators read this bill, if any. The essence of the act was the deregulation of derivatives trading (financial instruments whose value changes in response to the changes in underlying variables; the main use of derivatives is to reduce risk for one party). The legislation contained a provision -- lobbied for by Enron, a major campaign contributor to Gramm -- that exempted energy trading from regulatory oversight. Basically, it gave way to the Enron debacle and ushered in the new era of unregulated securities. Interestingly enough, Gramm's wife, Wendy, had been part of the Enron board, and her salary and stock income brought in between $900,000 and $1.8 million to the Gramm household, prior to the passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act....... LINKY Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act The bills were introduced in the Senate by Phil Gramm (R-TX) and in the House of Representatives by James Leach (R-IA). The bills were passed by a 54-44 vote along party lines with Republican support in the Senate[1] and by a 343-86 vote in the House of Representatives[2]. Nov 4, 1999: After passing both the Senate and House the bill was moved to a conference committee to work out the differences between the Senate and House versions. Democrats agreed to support the bill only after Republicans agreed to strengthen provisions of the Community Reinvestment Act and address certain privacy concerns.[3] The final bipartisan bill resolving the differences was passed in the Senate 90-8-1 and in the House: 362-57-15. Without forcing a veto vote, this bipartisan, veto proof legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999.

"I'm not here This isn't happening." They can't beleive they were dupped so badly. "People are more easily taken by a big lie than by a small lie." Once they swallow the big lie, they have to follow the turd down the hole to beleive it is a turd. They've been duped by the corporate television. Madison Avenue has packaged and sold them shi* for shinola. When they can take a village idiot and turn him into presidential material now that's marketing. Orwell was prescient, he wasn't even that far off on the year. "China's democracy has advanced to the point where America was in the 1880's. Patent medicine, Robber Barons, and no regulations. America on the other hand, has regressed back to that point."

I called HP tech support for my printer. Got connected to India, the ladies accent was so obvious. For 5 minutes I tried to tell her the model number which consisted of 3 letters and 4 numbers. She never did get it right, I ended up telling her sorry and hung up and called back to get someone else.

Hurry hurry, close the door to the barn(that their own dereg opened), AFTER the $$ ONE TRILLION TAXPAYER DOLLAR horses have left.