iain

wondering what the trophy of Sprayer of the Year is....gold-leaf Windex bottle?

dork is you! dru, player 1.

Dru your post in red letters and red star rotating picture betray your true loyalties. Best go hook up with commie DFA and play some Tetris.

well in places like Chamonix they seem to be flying around looking for people to be rescued. There's a lot more activity over there, at least, I would assume because access to very serious mountaineering is phenomenally easy. A paid group makes sense there. You're not really paying for that Mt Hood rescue, as the military money has already been spent in your federal taxes, whether the chopper goes down or not. Climbing accidents in America on an annual basis, while spectacular at times, really don't cost us that much compared to other activities.

Yes it was, a military analysis attributed the crash to pilot error. The enormity of the military budget deals with training accidents like this. As for the ground teams, PDX Mtn Rescue had command of that incident and is a non-profit that survives on donations. American Medical Response were the only compensated individuals on the mountain (besides the sheriff's deputies at the lodge and the initial response from Timberline Ski Patrol). Since the 304th Air Force Reserve were the ones who crashed the helicopter and they are paid, I don't see where you are going with this.

You just replied to me so I don't know if you were directing that at me or not. I didn't feel you were putting anyone down, just speaking the truth of the matter. We have had to ditch plans before and help take care of members in other SAR groups before. I completely agree with you.

trask I expected more from a cagey bbs veteran like yourself

I can only speak from the experience I have with mtn rescue here in Oregon. There are not enough climbing accidents between Rainier and Shasta to justify having a paid rescue service. Perhaps this is not the case in the North Cascades, but I doubt it. Since it is a nat'l park I would assume there are some paid rangers, but perhaps they get helo assistance from the military as well, like Rainier. As is, the major costs in a rescue are helicopter-related, and these are frequently if not always absorbed by the military as training budget. When the county has to contract helicopter service, prices become more of an issue. In Oregon, mountain rescue is frequently called to all kinds of non-mountain related accidents or more often, searches, as we are certified to operate at the general SAR level too, and can lead those operations if needed. Things get ugly when money is involved and there is a good group of very capable individuals willing to volunteer their time to do this job, and it's worked pretty well for the past few decades here in Oregon.

Greg you wouldn't be sweating it with this truck.

No, sorry wish I could help.

Patagonia only has the Ice Nine Bibs, which have the "bombay" thing. The long underwear that matches is the R1 medium weight capiliene stuff. Maybe not as warm as 100 weight polartec.

Come up with some new material. This is boring.

only chumps are still using Pagemaker. QuarkXPress or InDesign is where it's at these days...

sisu good call on the martial arts. They helped me learn to control and direct fear when it showed up, and it always does. I learned how to mentally center myself when I started to freak out, to the point that I can catch it long before it becomes panic. Being able to welcome fear like an old friend, acknowledge its presence, and employ it to drive you to new levels of ability, is one of the most satisfying things in climbing. It's healthy to be scared at times. It also seems to be one of the most difficult concepts to learn.

Of course fear is part of why you're there. Half the fun of climbing, particularly alpine mountain stuff, is how much one appreciates the feeling of safety and security while relaxing in front of a fireplace after battling it out in the ice and snow a few hours earlier. Fear makes you appreciate the little things in life that the average joe, stepping through life with little risk, takes for granted. In today's sterilized society, honestly how many times do you feel like you're fighting for your life like you do in the alpine in full conditions?

I thought this would be a discussion about Ashcroft. Thank goodness it is not.

I use the bivy bag anyways because I gots me a megamid and I take the bivy bag on the mountain w/ me.

dunno, grades seem to be all over the place there and broughton's.

what? I'm just running the rope through my fingers before it goes into the atc or reverso. I'm not melting anything on the rope. It just abrades my fingers. ATCs get hot on rappels but they aren't burning through the mantle. Though there was a couple caving fatalities where a bit-too-fast rappel ended up melting the mantle and rocketed the guy down to the bottom of a huge drop. They found him with massive trauma and a huge pool of melted nylon. These were on multiple-hundreds of feet rappels though.

I like how Puget describes this board as basically a dive bar of bbs's. hahaha!

Drain Mount Fanny Jackies Thicket

Open it up to Oregon too. I nominate Spray, Oregon.

Steve I like your response that's exactly how I feel about it. Gloves might work out well, but I generally don't use them for one reason or another. I sometimes have the habit of putting a finger between the rappel lines as they enter my device to work out kinks when I'm the last one down to make the rope pull easier, and there I find myself burning the insides of my fingers at times. Gloves would be nice there, but again, I generally don't use them. Probably best to not get in the habit of ripping down on the rappel either. Surprised there's been this much conversation on the topic! At least it's not global warming.