Off_White

Yeah, I was thinking this tour was my first concert. Was that when the bass player wore zebra stripes and had all his instruments striped to match? Fleetwood Mac opened, Bare Trees was the current album and the warbly voiced gauze covered one was not in the band. Other early shows range from the embarrassing (Gordon Lightfoot, too drunk to remember the words to anything) to the ludicrous (Uriah Heep, but the folks next to us shared some stupifying weed).

Yes, there are things we can agree on Fairweather.

Sorry Trask, really its about ME

Ahh, you lucked out and got a good one. When she played in Olympia, I don't think she finished a single song, just sort of sputtered out in mid-verse, got up, wandered around the stage a bit, sat down and started another one, until she finally wandered all the way off stage.

The US reason for the war has been a shifting thing, depending on what people will believe. Al-Quaida, breaking the rules, WMD, terrorist support, oh, yeah, liberation, that's it, liberation. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad many people there are happy with the outcome, but the reasons we've been offered by our government are pure bullshit. I also don't think the oil alone is enough: sure, we'll make more money now, not to mention lucrative reconstruction contracts, and it will be the single biggest income opportunity for Bush's heaviest contributors, but MtnGoat does have a valid point that there are easier less risky ways to make money from the same source, albeit less money. No, I believe the real reason has to do with Empire and a vision for how the world will be run. I haven't noticed anyone bringing up the Project for a New American Century around here, though I confess I can't bring myself to read all these threads. In case you're unaware, its a conservative think tank begun in 1998 and headed by Bill Kristol, publisher of the Weekly Standard. From the start they pushed for removing Saddam Hussein's regime, and the plan signatories include some familiar names: Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Eliot Abrams (national security council director of mid-east policy) John Bolton (undersecretary of state), as well as non administration ubiquitous neo-conservatives Richard Perle and William Bennett. The gist of their report is to establish the US as the sole superpower in the world, able to act unilaterally and without regard for other's concerns. A PNAC book, Present Danger, is essentially the bluepring for Bush's foreign policy, and I think this drive for empire, which they prefer to call hegemony, is what Iraq is all about. It does call for the ability to wage unilateral war on several fronts all over the world and to urge the Israelis to abandon the peace process in favor a all out war with the Palestinians. Is any of this sounding familiar to anyone? I'd go on, but I've already exceeded most attention spans around here, so I'll just make one more point. Its interesting to note that many traditional conservatives abhor this policy trend, which runs counter to the free-trade WTO plan for economic interdependence as the path to a safer world rather than this benvolent world dictator concept, where the world is described in the Weekly Standard's own words as "troubled lands [that] cry out for the sort of enlightened foreign administration once provided by self-confident Englishmen in jodhpurs and pith helmets".

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Fern - my mistake then, I guess I interpreted your comments to imply you found good stuff on radio, in addition to poking a pin in the music snobbery balloon. Billy Childish is a hoot, I had the sense he could go on all night if someone kept supplying the drink. E-Rock - It's tough when the radio hyped band is something you listened too before they got the exposure. I'm not much of a radio listener, but my work van only has a radio, and running a construction company, jobsite radio is a constant. On the job, classic rock ala KZOK or KISW is the norm my crew has settled on. It's vaguely distressing to find I know the words to most of the songs. As far as best shows, I think I've liked some of the festivals down here in Olympia best: the International Pop Underground Convention and the various Yo-Yo-A-Go-Go's. There's just something about the total immersion, 50 some bands in 5 days, that really turns my crank.

Say what? Were any of the above ever considered "punk"? New Wave maybe (except for garcia) but punk?!?!? I saw Queen circa 1980. One of the finer shows I ever went to--that I can remember. The English Beat were compatible with a punk crowd. I saw 'em open for the Clash in San Francisco when they were touring in support of London Calling, an excellent show. Hey Fern, I've been trying to get DFA to do that disc swap thing since July to no Avail (little haha for you there Doc). I'd be curious to know what great music you have found on the radio. It seems to me that when they do pick up something I think is great, it gets played to death, and the repetiton overwhelms the song. The White Stripes were a good example of this, a pleasant surprise to have them achieve success, but it has stripped the fun out of "Fell In Love With A Girl." BTW, word is their new disc is great, but I haven't heard it yet. So, how many indie rockers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? What... you mean, you don't know?

I just have an uninformed opinion to offer: perhaps consider Bingen, WA also. Probably cheaper rent as it is not so foo foo, but there is the pesky 50 cent toll bridge to cross the river.

Okay, I get the gist of it, if not the specifics (since I haven't read the news). I was thinking microcosm, not macrocosm, and I was wondering what our Pope had said to get Pullinfool in a twist. So we're talking about the guy in a dress, not the Zappa fan.

Yeah, what Fleblebleb said. If you wanna brawl, at least cue us in to a little background.

Climbing jumped the shark years and years ago, when their covers went from great photographs to portraits structured to fit in those garish blurbs and come ons, like they want to be People magazine, or as if the right sensational headline will inspire some passerby to purchase the magazine. I guess simple elegance just doesn't cut it in publishing anymore.

Bee Hay A bunch of us were sitting around camp 4, coming up with other phrases that began with our initials. Brad Hughes said "big head" and as soon as the words were out of his lips you could tell he regretted it. He did have a largish noggin, and being his friends, we instantly began calling him Big Head which wound up being slurred and shortened to Bee Hay.

Yeah Doc, I haven't heard Black Keys on disc, but live in PDX awhile back they were a good time.

I believe MtnGoat is a Libertarian, which is not the same thing as conservative, though there will be some opinion overlap. Perhaps you meant to say MtnGoat is pro Iraq war.

Weird. I just read it on Yahoo! and now it seems that they've pulled the story. I can't find it now. I'll keep digging. I was wondering if you were referring to the missles recently found. I noticed CNN currently has the story only as a Breaking News headline with other info, suggesting more tests are ongoing and preliminary tests were positive.

you're fucking rude grow up Now thats funny! I saw you posted to this question and Iain's answer was what I expected you to say, but no, you were just being a good citizen.

Yep, that's true Robbob. I just presented data, everyone can draw their own conclusions. Of course, China, India, Pakistan, Sudan, and Iran have ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention, and are likely in violation. Israel and Egypt have signed but not ratified, and North Korea or Libya did not sign. For myself, looking at the big picture, 20 missles in Iraq does not yet justify the tens of billions of dollars and lives lost, or constitute much of a world wide threat. I do think they're likely to find some more, but at this point I think we're still just fishing for excuses to justify what we wanted to do for a whole range of other reasons. But of course now I've strayed into opinion, and which I'll freely admit will require more facts to change. I'd guess that's true for your opinions too. Lets see what the next few days brings.

JGowans, what's your source? This morning it was reported to be Sarin and Mustard Gas, has this changed, and who's assessment is it? One would hope the US military would get some serious confirmation before announcing things, lest they be caught crying wolf.

Well, I believe Glassgowkiss is actually Polish. Whatever happened to Scottish Wanker, and wasn't Tyrone Shoes of similar descent? Were those guys just avatars of vapor, or did they really exist?

China, Egypt, Syria, Israel, Iran, and North Korea are also suspected of having undeclared stockpiles of chemical weapons. Libya, Sudan, Pakistan, and India are also suspected of having chemical weapons facilities or capabilites. This of course does not include all those countries who are believed to have admitted to all of their stockpiles. For example, the US is in the process of incinerating our 30,000 tons of nerve gas, and Russia proposes their 40,000 metric tons (quantity is speculative, not confirmed) to be destroyed by 2012.

May I recommend you down a pint of acetone as a propellant? Greater, ummm, muzzle velocity will lessen the chances your victims will be able to flee in time.

Well, they do have considerably less range than my Ford Econoline with a full tank of gas.

I think I got shut down on Stuart four times before I suceeded: A reluctant girlfriend on Sherpa Couloir, scary warm on the Ice Cliff Glacier, volleys of briefcases just below the throat on Stuart Glacier Couloir, and steady rain starting on the second pitch of the complete N Ridge (bailed out at the notch) all combined to stymie me before I finally made it up. It didn't feel personal though, mother nature doesn't help or hinder, just doesn't give a shit.

Balderdash. 46% of Americans describe themselves as fundamentalist or born again Christians, including our illustrious leader. This is not a discriminated against minority, but a large movement full of overweening pride and self-importance, who believe that everyone should believe what they do. Christians are discriminated against? I'll wager you'll see a woman, a black and a Jew elected president before an atheist comes anywhere close. Of course, I'm an atheist, so freedom from religion suits me perfectly. Christian culture and speech is all over this country, from the President's speeches to the parade I attended in Tacoma yesterday. Christians complaining about being locked out of the mainstream are like folks griping that there aren't enough white people in this country anymore. With regards to "in god we trust" on the money, I must reiterate: poppycock. The founders did not insert that phrase into anything, and the motto Thomas Jefferson came up with was E Pluribus Unum. In 1861, the Reverend M.R. Watkinson persuaded the secretary of the Treasury to try to introduce 'In God We Trust' as a motto on the coins of the land, arguing on the theological premise that in a Judeo-Christian nation, 'There is but one God.' Congress, then beginning to be responsive to the religious community and the votes that it was presumed to control, passed the Coinage Act of April 22, 1864, which designated that 'In God We Trust' be put on coins 'when and where sufficient space in the balance of the design' would permit it. The phrase first appeared on the short lived 1864 two cent coin, and didn't appear again until 1908. It was 1916 before it made it onto the dime. And while I'm at it I'd like to point out that "under god" was added to the pledge of allegience in the 50's as part of the whole McCarthy era fear of godless communists, not as some sacred intent from the founders of the United States. And now the President goes on television to spout off about god guiding us to victory. There is not enough separation of church and state for me, not by half.