Greg_W

quote: Originally posted by trask: Allisin, I love your new sig. Keep the faith bro. Trask, are saying that allisin is a bro?

quote: Originally posted by rbw1966: quote:Originally posted by Greg W: You can make fun of my guns, I don't care; should the situation arise, I'll make sure not to use them to protect you or your family. Deal? Just doing my part to keep the thread going. I don't consider street crime a domestic invasion. I made this point to my neighbor lady a few weeks ago when she said she hated guns. Since she hates them (and the fact that I have several), why should I use them if her house gets broken into when her husband is out of town? Greg W

Sorry Erik; do we still get to go outside for recess? [ 10-23-2002, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Greg W ]

quote: Originally posted by chucK: Putting words in your mouth?? I quoted you verbatim! I asked why you weren't able to be civil. I didn't say you hurt my feelings. It's cool, though.

quote: Originally posted by chucK: Why should the burden be upon us to offer "FINANCIALLY VIABLE" alternatives to inhibit wonton resource destruction? Forgive me if I misinterpret again but this sounds like in order to get people to stop soiling our environment we need to pay them? Do we need to provide for their God-given right to make their money if we want them to leave us a reasonably healthy place to live? The people soiling the environment are "infringing on my freedom and liberty". According to your earlier post that's not a good thing. My point here is that in order for people to change, you have to make it affordable. The majority (which is what you need to effect change) of people will remain with the status quo unless so motivated to change. If you can offer them a cleaner-burning engine with the same power, torque, ease-of-operation, and ease-of-maintenance, for the same cost, they are more likely to try it. I don't know if there is a "God-given right to make money"; I think "pursuit of happiness" does or does not include money. No one has a "right" to make lots of money; we all have the right to be free to attempt this. I have yet to understand how "people soiling the environment are infringing my 'freedom and liberty'". Which freedoms? Define "soiling." You are soiling the environment by driving to the crags. I'm serious. Greg W

quote: Originally posted by rbw1966: ...this looming domestic invasion Greg keeps promising to protect us from? Huh?

quote: Originally posted by chucK: quote:Originally posted by Greg W: You may exercise your personal freedom and liberty to the extent that it does not infringe the personal freedom and liberty of your neighbor. Very simple. Yes, very simple. Noone disagrees with this. Unfortunately, this statement is never applicable in the big world of resource consumption. If you let consumers have free reign, the conservers will be infringed upon. If you let conservers have their way, the consumers will be upset. Greg seems to think that his statement validates degradation of the environment, because people who protest such activities are infringing upon the freedom and liberties of the degraders. If called on this point, he makes up some bullshit sidestep of how mining and logging are very clean and don't hurt anyone. Remarkable!!! How can one argue with a true believer of such twisted logic? It's beating your head against the wall people. Leave for awhile and some enviro-nut thinks he knows how you'll post. Don't tell me what I think, Chuck, and DO NOT put "words in my mouth". I do not agree with wonton degradation of natural resources. There are ways to protest that do not infringe upon others' rights. If you chose not to use them, prepare to accept the consequences of your actions. Of course logging and mining exact a toll on the surroundings. It is unfortunate, but the market drives these forces. I never said that logging and mining never hurt anyone; get real. Again, the market drives the demand for steel, copper, paper, etc. Offer FINANCIALLY VIABLE alternatives and this may change. I don't really understand why you would be such a prick in your post; we have traded posts on other threads in a respectful manner (I think ). Greg W

quote: Originally posted by Beaver Joe: My first post and can you believe its on the spray board? Everybody's life is full of contradictions. And we can pick at each others' contradictions all day long without accomplishing anything. The only thing anyone can do about it is being informed and asking themselves if they feel warranted in making any given decision. Pretty lame for your first one, sparky. It'll get easier.

quote: Originally posted by danielpatricksmith: Greg W, What good is a strong economy if it destroys the water you drink and the air you breathe. Think that's hyperbole? Take a look at Mexico City or China or any other developing country that has put 'progress' ahead of environmental protection. Both of your examples are 3rd World Countries; not a valid comparison. Again, be responsible not fanatical.

quote: Originally posted by j_b: if I have to explain to you how our spewing 25% of global CO2 emission is screwing others, I don't need to actually announce to the world 'your are a moron' because you do a pretty good job of it on your own. Please enumerate these rights that are being violated. Meanwhile, list all the benefits that people are gaining from industrial progress and theorize if they would prefer to give those up. Or would you just be for legislating them away for "our own good"?

quote: Originally posted by iain: 5 abreast and 6x10^100 deep everyday at 7 and 5 for no good reason. 300,000,000,000 vehicles, eh? With 1.9-2.0 Million residents in the Portland Metropolitan area (Portland Chamber of Commerce), that would mean that every person has 150,000 cars. How does that work?

quote: Originally posted by iain: it gets ridiculous when most of those people don't need a 4x4 monster to get to Fred Meyer, that's all. How do you know what they need them for? Do you ask them? Most of the big "SUV's" at my Fred Meyer also tow boats, trailers, have campers, snowmobiles, etc. Are we going to set up a bureaucracy that approves "need" of an SUV? That is where your going. Greg W

quote: Originally posted by RobBob: quote: How about the same situation in your favorite hunting spot, etc? Would you be riled if a new subdivision paved over a choice fishing spot? Dr. Flashdance, this problem will come about mainly because we will have 385 million people in the US within 40 years or so. Perhaps you should reconsider my idea, which you so rudely dismissed weeks ago, for worldwide population control. trollin' mofo; you bad.

quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: "I only complain about gas prices because I know they would go down if we would just drill ANWR." Greg, As a tradly alpine climber and presumably an enthusiast of the wilderness or at least semi-undespoiled natural areas where you like to climb, how do you reconcile your anti-anti-development (not sure if you're actually pro-development), pro-oil extraction, anti-environmentalism standpoint with your enjoyment of the outdoors? At what point would you feel the need to fight development or resource extraction, were it to threaten your favorite areas. Say Exxon found 200 billion barrels worth of oil under the crags at Leavenworth, and you'd never get to climb there again. Would you be happy that gas prices would go down to 85 cents a gallon and let them start drilling, or would you fight like a motherfucker to keep the crags? How about the same situation in your favorite hunting spot, etc? Would you be riled if a new subdivision paved over a choice fishing spot? Just curious as to where you draw the line, as it seems that eventually your politics and your various forms of recreation are at a danger of conflicting eventually. Did you see my post to daniel about responsible use and management? The technology is there to extract the oil in a minimum-impact operation, much like the current Alaska pipeline and its related works.

quote: Originally posted by j_b: Your litany about your god-given right to screw others is tiresome. Now you've proved to me that your a moron in two threads. NEVER has MtnGoat (or I) said that we have a God-given right to screw others. That is YOUR twisted interpretation and selective reading of what we have to say. Did you not read my last post? You may exercise your personal freedom and liberty to the extent that it does not infringe the personal freedom and liberty of your neighbor. Very simple. How is that "screwing others"? If you have a guilt complex because you're a mildly successful white guy and have to compensate by feeling good about giving your money to the government for social programs, fine. But don't project your guilt onto me. [ 10-23-2002, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: Greg W ]

quote: Originally posted by Figger Eight: i ain't scared of you or your puppy - bring it What are you saying? You hate his dog??

quote: Originally posted by greenfork: But actually making decisions about your life without regarding the effects on others, or not caring, is selfish. Not understanding the difference between these two things is bad. but left-wingers trying to impose misguided limitations on our freedoms is also bad. You may exercise your personal freedom and liberty to the extent that it does not infringe the personal freedom and liberty of your neighbor. Very simple. You still never answered my question: HOW MUCH OF YOUR PERSONAL FREEDOM ARE YOU WILLING TO SUBVERT (or sacrifice)? Greg W

Damn, busted by Off White. Hey, I love your cd, man. I've listened to it like 8 times since Sunday. Great hanging with you at P.G. Spray on, people.

quote: Originally posted by iain: quote:Originally posted by trask: People can drive any damn thing they want. If you don't like it, tough shit. It's their money, their bag. It's your money when you have to pay higher gas prices, higher energy prices for material production, more restrictive air quality requirements, and the list goes on. People already complain about gas prices when they are spending upwards of $40 a week to commute in an Excursion on heavily subsidized gas. I predict total anarchy if gas goes over $3 a gallon. I've heard this argument before, Iain, and I don't think so. People understand that when they buy a big truck that it will cost money to drive. Most of us are willing to pay what it costs to drive the vehicles we want and don't complain. I only complain about gas prices because I know they would go down if we would just drill ANWR.

quote: Originally posted by greenfork: not dodging the issue, he's just providing an admittedly exaggerated example of the typical selfish right wing view of "I'll do whatever the hell I want, regardless of the effect it has on others" These bullshit exaggerated examples ("ridiculous" in Iain's words) add nothing constructive to the discussion. This technique is designed to stump the other side, not encourage interchange. "Typical selfish right wing view..."; nice troll. You may think that being able to make my own decisions about my life is selfish, but I don't. How much of your personal freedom are you willing to subvert? You obviously believe that you should be supporting homeless people and that the government should be our nanny; I, however, do not.

quote: Originally posted by Eduard: If it turns out that Goran was killed because he was unknowing using a static rope for leading then we will have some heavy ammunition to do something about the uninformed sale of static ropes. I do have some pull in the industry. WTF? I think you need to relax, Eddie. Without sounding callous, we as climbers are responsible to know our gear. Have "heavy ammunition" against who? Greg W

quote: Originally posted by Chepe: I hear Willis Wall is a great winter climb Isn't that a walkup?

Can Adamson and I borrow it to make the approach up to Aasgard Pass quicker?

quote: Originally posted by iain: quote:Originally posted by Greg W: Iain, why should anyone be able to tell you what kind of car you "should" drive? What bullshit. Who is best able to tell Iain what it best for him? Answer: Iain. Think about it. So if I feel like driving an M1 Abrams to work you wouldn't mind the damage to I-5 that you will be taxed for rebuilding? Hey, if that thing's street-legal I'd think about trading in the Chevy! Nice way to dodge the true issue, Iain. Lame. [ 10-23-2002, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Greg W ]

quote: Originally posted by iain: quote:Originally posted by Greg W: They want to tell me what kind of car I can drive Considering how many commuters are out there driving around troop transports on the same 6 miles of highway each and every day in stop/go, I think there is a point when people clearly can't see what is a reasonable vehicle for commuting each day. I don't care about making it illegal to drive the beast, just tax the hell out of that kind of decision rather than provide light truck incentives for it. Iain, why should anyone be able to tell you what kind of car you "should" drive? What bullshit. Who is best able to tell Iain what it best for him? Answer: Iain. Think about it.