ivan

i'm shocked n' horrified you can't distinguish the geniune-deal from that ersatz-bastard - when, forsooth, has tvash ever been known to expostulate w/ a kenning!?! you seem to be confusing the fuck-taxes war w/ the war of northern aggression, but, uh...uh...i'm not really sure what you were saying there? i'd return you to the 1791 argument - how many Famous Founders would be kewl w/ the status quo pro bellum?

most of the power on the issue is of course supposed to be held by the congress the original bill of rights that emerged from the english civil war of the 17th century did also contain a right to own weapons, though in a predictably english fashion w/ lotza clauses n' what-have-you's regarding social classes n' sorts of weapons n' such bottom line, drag jefferson or washington out of their graves and ask them if a homeboy w/ no education/property/social-standing should be able to have a weapon giving him the firepower of an entire 18th century regiment, what do you think they'd say?

clearly you're forgeting cousin strawberry!?

cheech n' chong?

please name a successful revolution in which the people weren't initially completely out-matched in terms of firepower compared to the government?

if i have sprayed further than those before me, it is only because i have stood on the shoulders of imbeciles

it ain't hard to understand how, in ten years, i've yet to manage a winter rainier climb

not that i've ever needed help in that department... i'm all for reducing the world population - perhaps if we put vaccines in all the bullets? a free bushmaster w/ every anti-botulism shot?

The 'only outlaws' argument is bullshit. Where do the outlaws get their guns? Um...from the commercial market any time they damn well feel like it. If they weren't available at all, they wouldn't have them, or they'd have to smuggle them, which would greatly reduce the supply. The 'too many already in circulation' argument doesn't wash either - just a nonsensical excuse to continue to do nothing. Increase penalties for banned weapons ownership and you'll see all kinds of owners, criminal and law abiding, give them up right quick like.

Private citizens don't need access to the same weapons as the police, who do use lots and lots of military weapons these days. If you need a Glock for self defense, try hanging out with a better crowd instead. You don't have to cock a revolver to fire multiple rounds. Yup, plenty of responsible automatic owners who would need to give up their weapons. They can blame all those irresponsible ones should such a long needed ban come about. I'm sure if grenades were legal there would be lots of 'responsible owners'.

People, are we really going to allow the opportunity for national dialogue on this issue go by the boards? Now is the time for setting aside our partisan differences and engaging in a real debate. The MMA vs. Jackie Chan Question is just too important right now and needs to be settled once and for all if we are to move forward as a nation, as a species, really. Okay, I got off track. I'll stick with my argument that treatment of mental illness is key and gun control is a red herring. And these issues should be national dialogue. Most mass shooters don't broadcast their intentions to an actionable degree. Yes, better mental health care access is something we've needed to do since Reagan fucked it all up, but gun control is what we can do something about across the board. The recent pro gun dialog has labeled it a red herring - it's not, of course. It works, and its something we should do. I'd be OK with legal revolvers, all other handguns illegal. You want self defense? You've got six rounds to make it happen. Any more than that and you didn't go to the gun range often enough, pal. Sorry.

bring back the blunderbuss!

BTW, the last two posts were me (Tvash) posting as Ivan. Too damn lazy to logout/login.

Most gun makers are private, but Smith and Wesson is not - down 20% since the shooting. The majority owners of Freedom Arms, makers of the perps rifle, are unloading the company in the wake of the tragedy. It seems that, from a political standpoint, shooting 20 6 year olds got the attention of even the Rfucks in congress, at least some of them, who now state they are willing to relook at gun control measures such as the assault weapons ban. Military style weapons are big business (the reason why they are still legal). If I were a manufacturer, I'd be pretty nervous right about now.

Weighting the benefits and harms, it would be best for everyone if handguns were banned along with assault rifles. They save far fewer people than they hurt. Sorry, gun freaks. Your costly little hero fantasy is just too expensive for the rest of us.

tvash's presence, near snoring on my bofa, no doubt explains my passionate perfidy

actually had a great one of the kidz today, but as i had the misfortune to be in it too, it's all fucked up...

seems like we've already hit most of the items on the start of your list w/o the ones at the bottom suffering any threat at all? as to kev's question, the study of any guerilla war makes it obvious that most popular revolutions begin w/ seriously inferior weapons compared to the government, but that a variety of factors soon find the rebels w/ war-toys plenty-equal to the task at hand (them libyans n' syrians of late, for example, haven't taken to long to turn the tables, and the endless frustration in vietnam of course was that we could up the ante as much as we wanted w/ minimal return) - all americans having access to the same arsenal as da gubmint in order to forestall the apocalypse makes about as much sense as the folks that advocate the idea

colonel kurtz claimed the kong didn't care for the polio vaccine neither

meh. i teach on a sprawling campus. sure we gotta a cop, plus the main station down not more than 3 minutes away at 95 mph, sirens awailing - i wouldn't be surprised if a couple of my colleagues were even armed (2 ex-green berets on staff, reckon their hands would be enough ) - but w/ a thousand entrance/exits, folks all over the place at all hours, there's no castle-like illusions to be had - schools are supposed to be about openness and trust anyhow, and if there's a war-on-education, then in the name of winnning that war, a few good soldiers will likely have to die from time to time...that's why i got a helmet in my room and a fine fortress-plan it's like thurber said: "there is no safety in numbers...nor in anything else."

agreed. course...to keep said laws on books will necessitate keeping libturds in office so the other side doesn't cut n' run later under the kinda sunset provisions that killed the original AW ban

anyone know if the shooter had any recent vaccinations?

witch hunt? i'm in!

the fact that this is a frequent enough occasion as to warrant a wikipedia page speaks volumes! the events of november 2, 1853 speak deeply to my approach to public instruction

shit, i can't hardly even afford the gas to get to where i could ski!