allison

When I was a new little miss thing climber the first thing I did is go find myself as many other new little miss and mr things to learn with, and climb with indoors and out. At first I climbed a lot inside because I didn't have any gear and it was winter. Then I learned to lead and got a rope. I tried to mimimize my impact on the more experienced climbers I knew by not climbing with them too much. Climbing with newbies, esp if they don't lead, really SUCKS. HodiddleyHUM. Two things to get immediately: a rope. They wear out quickly. They are expensive. Thing #2 is leading skills. I'm just talking sport to start with, and most people I know don't mind lending you QDs until you get a dozen or so. Good luck, and don't play the gender card. If we find out you are a troll, things will get worse...so hopefully you are a real girl. Good luck.

okayokayokay VegBelay, you are riiiiight. I obviously DON'T understand the concept of the Spry, because if I did, I'd know why this poop belongs here on the main board instead of over on Planet Spray, where the big boys* go out and play *those would be the ones who have cracked the Net Nanny! [ 02-15-2002: Message edited by: allison ]

Matt A, you may have missed my point....I was trying to explain why the system is dynamic in the first place, and why IMO, it's ideal to keep the system as dynamic as possible. There are so many variables here though, as pointed out by the myriad posts on the subject. Make no mistake: I never meant to imply static rope or otherwise faulty belay system. The system stays more dynamic when the belayer is belaying off of their harness (perferably IMO with a device other than a GriGri), and not attached to an anchor if possible. This gives your belayer the control they need to protect the leader and the belay system, as explained by others here.

Or you can read about it over on 'Spray.'

OK, my $.02: I am anti- belaying off an anchor, or being anchored in (when possible, obviously) while belaying. The reason why is that it introduces another static element into the system. The more stretchy the system (like the rope, and your braking hand) the better and easier it is on your climber when they fall. Think of this: if the rope and other elements of the belay system didn't have dynamic 'give' in them, the impact of the rope going tight in a lead fall could easily kill the climber. Internal injuries! Everyone's a little bit different in the amount of slack they want, but this is what I like for what it's worth: I want the rope as taut as you can make it without me ever being able to feel the rope. Right...the loose side of tense. If you know your partner you know how fast they climb and whether they are going to move fast or slow. I want the rope fed out smoothly so the only sort of 'pulling' I ever feel is the rope drag. Remember if you ever get a little sloppy on belaying too tight to blame the rope drag your partner won't be the wiser ...Except in the case of groundfall potential in which case I'll short-rope (on the side of taut) when I can (the clip or pro is, say, waist level or higher) in order to protect against that.

It was EEEXCELLENT. Good turnout, maybe a dozen. I was groggy at work this morning. Mmmmm....obsidian stout!!!

Thanks to VB for the helpful and incisive commentary. Really appreciate it. Now, back to the matter at hand: The preview of the course is a fair point....now if the girls could at least get as steep a course as the boys, and as long a one, we'd be talking! As far as Glen Plake is concerned, well, that guy is a freak. Flame suit on. Spray queen? MOI? What ever gave you that idea? [ 02-13-2002: Message edited by: allison ]

Many apply, few are accepted.

Erik, where are these construction workers you are talking about? Rigging is typically done with steel cable with swaged and thimbled eyes (rated), shackles (rated), steel biners (rated) chain hoists (rated), and not with unrated materials. Very similar to what we use in my work. We never fake it because we don't have the right stuff. There's too much danger and liability. Same with construction work. Of course there is rated chain....haven't you ever seen a chain hoist? As far as the 'what is rated' question...it's too complicated to discuss here, especially when you get into dynamic loads. There might be some stuff on the Petzl website on this, they talk about this sometimes. Typically in my work we look at the load capacity of whatever we are using, and then incorporate a safety factor of 5 to 8 times that rating, but there are so many variables to that formula in doing safe overhead rigging....well it's just not worth getting in to.

You guys can be pretty annoying, but this I like.hahahaha. I can't believe the gin and platonic/scotch and sofa line does not work. Try that one again on another girl! [ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: allison ]

Well, Icegirl and I are going to the Park Pub. Trask and Erik are going to Hooters to find some classy chicks, and Dwayner, well, poor guy, he's going to Kirkland....some fellows can't be helped.

Every time the Olympics are on I am re-reminded of something annoying: The boys and girls run on 2 different DH courses. The boys get the "Grizzly" this time and the girls get the "Wildflower". WTF? Picabo...wildflower...riiiight. I have a theory as to why there are 2 courses but I'd like a bonafide real reason from someone who might be able to shed some light. I also continue to wonder why there is no high-performance ski gear for women, the only thing I can think of is that the manufacturers don't think they'd sell enough of it to make money. Still pisses me off. Men's gear doesn't fit (I'm mostly talking about boots) and women't gear..well, it's mostly just too mediocre. Anyone in the industry care to explain? And Sprayboys....if you're tempted...move along to the next one. I'm serious!

I haven't tried it myself but I've heard of this workinf from several people.

Just so Tricky doesn't confuse anyone, there is a place called the Woodland Park Inn at about 59th and Phinney on the W side of the street. That is NOT the place. Another block or 2 N on the E side of the street is the Park Pub....and that IS the place. Bet. 61st and 62nd. And Uncle Tricky, you know we can't have our Blind Wedding if you show up. OK, got to so I can later.

Hey, Will, leave me out of this crap, willya? You do a lot better talking about tensile strength than "pool", 'K?

Thanks Will, that's sort of what I thought....and I haven't had the materials claases. Just a ton of field experience. The fact that dynamic loading and stresses gets so complicated, well that's what I said in answer to the original question. Dynamic loads are really the part of rigging that is impossible to explain. As far as the wear issue, in my work everything is steel and our best method is visual inspection. Thank god we don't use aluminium!

Good. 8:00 I'll be there. Hope someone will play pool!

What is mean tensile failure point? Is that the amount of stretching the chain will take before failure? Could chain be only tested that way? Chain hoists take dynamic load all of the time, though the rating of the motor is way lower than the rating of the chain. Here I was worried about getting too technical and a civ engr comes along! Touche!!

nononono, READ the post....boys ARE allowed!!!

Good girl. I'll come down too. Alex? Dave? LADIES?

Tuesdays. $2.50 pints, Park Pub, 62 and Phinney, E side of Phinney. Smoking= yes but almost no one does. Beer selection= over 20 micros. Good grub. Sound good?

You seemed pretty miserable on Friday.

I went to Red Rocks one March. The weather was SCRUMPTIOUS!

What the hell is a hoochie mama? And please, don't give me this beta. For a good while at Friday Pub we had more girls than boys there. Hope that's OK.

Did someone say Latona? Say it again and I'm there.