not_a_climber

They may have a limited budget, but then who has a limitless one? It comes down to what our government spends money on and also what direction they or rather we the people want to see recreation go. Perhaps money could be redirected from other areas? http://www.loper.org/~george/trends/1998/Oct/17.html 50 millions would go a long way towards our trails. Naw. As an aside, the Middle Fork road is going to be paved to Taylor River and gated at Dingford Creek last I heard. [ 07-25-2002, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: not a climber ]

Green Lake?

I guess we need to decide right off if we are going to have trails in wilderness areas. If my (escalating) parking fees are going to support this trail maintenace, then it seems the maintenance should be done in an efficient manner and the wilderness managers should be able to choose their tools based on that. The wilderness remains wilderness whether the blowdowns are cut by a handsaw or a chainsaw and the person going through the next day isn't going to know the difference. It would be a shame that at a time in which I'm paying more for trails than I ever have, that we start losing them due to handwringing over hairsplitting.

I'm in Seattle which is near Lynnwood. Up here alot of black copters too but then I took off my sunglasses and they changed colors. Is this worse? I'm trying to remember who gave me the sunglasses. It was a coed but I can't remember what he/she looked like.

I'd say there were about 20 protesters. Hopefully more if they have another one. Be there.

I think the protest went well today. It was a good chance to make your vote visible and also compare notes with others about backcountry trips. Just say no to fee demo.

My concern is that there seems to be no cohesive vision for public recreation in general. I would like to see city parks, state parks, and primitive recreational wilderness use (hiking, climbing) supported without the use of a user fee. The demo fees exclude those from the wilderness that can't afford it (and yes there are people that can't afford the pass). A public demonstration seems the way to go to me. Unless we protest, the fee demo will be here to stay. I'd say it was a shoe in from the start actually.

Take a look at this http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/134437746_trails17m.html and this http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfp/rec/rec.htm my guess is that with our lack of input, soon our wilderness will be on the Dow Jones Industrial. Say no to trail fees. Boycott stores that sell the passes.

Asotin

By far the greatest song ever written... White Knight (by Cletus Maggard and the Citizen's Band) Down 75 or 85,Or I-20 t'other way,Turn your squelch to the rightAnd in the nightYou'll hear some good buddy say,"Breaker breaker,Got a picture taker,All Smokeys at forty three." It's that Japanese toy,The trucker's joyThat everybody calls CB.Yeah, Citizen's Band, keeps you up to dateOn fender benders and Tijuana taxis,And all them bears out there. Flip flop. Now ahead of your children and ahead of your wifeOn the list of the ten best things in life,Your CB's gotta rate right around number four.'Course beavers and hot biscuits and Merle HaggardCome one, two, three, you know. Well I was loaded down, coming outta Lake City;I was checkin' out seat covers, young and pretty,When all of a sudden there come a callOver my CB, ringin' wall to wall,Said clove her double nickels till you hit the ridge,'Cause there's a Smokey picture taker t'other side of the bridge. "Oh mercy, 'ppreciate that, good buddy;What's your handle there, come on?You got any county mounties out there prowlin', come on?"And he said -- "Ten four...back door, Put the peddle to the metal and...let it roar Hammer down...to Macon town... Gonna see my momma...sure. Well, the bears are gone, Let's...bring it on... The Georgia line's...out of sight. Pulled outta Richmond town last Saturday night, And my handle is...the White Knight, How 'bout it?" "All right, White Knight, hammer down,You got the mean machine here."I was a streakin'My needle was a peakin'A right around seventy nine.That old diesel juiceWas a gettin' loose,And everything was fine.But wall to wallI got a callFront door, big bear trapper.Said, "Break one nine,Good buddy of mine,You got a Smokey in a plain white wrapper." Well I jammed my stick,I lost twenty quick;You could hear them gears a tearin'.I got passed by a beaver,And a Camaro,I was cruisin' aloneAnd going so slowI could count every button on that frilly blouse she was wearin'. 'Course there weren't but one. "Hey there, super trooper!Yeah -- that's the crafty Smokey over there with a CB of his own.Hey White Knight, let's slide one on the super trooper, come on?" "Ten four, back door. Put the peddle to the metal, whatcha...waitin' for? That old flop Can't stay in sight, Gonna leave you here and say no more, How 'bout it?" "Whoa, now, buddy, that's fightin' talk,I'd get up there and blow your doors off!" Well I hammered down like I had wings,Little gravels in my wheels going ping, ping, ping.'Bout the time I hit ninety-two,Saw something flashing' in my rear view.Thought to myself that can't be true,But there it was, old blue, blue, blue. Uh oh. Bubble gum machine done hit the jackpot. Well I could see that bear, laughing big,Hangin' in tight on the back of my rig.Right there and then it came to be wall to wall.Mm-hmm. So in that cold dark Georgia night,In the shadows of Smokey bear's blue light,I 'cided to make me just one more CB call. "Breaker one nine for the super trooper,Hey there, Smokey old buddy, tell me if I'm right,Are you my front door? Are you the White Knight? Come on?"And he said -- "Ten four, back door. You're in a heap of trouble boy...that's for sure. Gonna read you your rights, and treat you fair. Pull over there, With your...rockin' chair. Want you boys to know each other real well, 'Cause you gonna be sharin' the same jail cell. You make twelve cotton pickers I've caught tonight, From the front door of that White Knight. Hhha-hhha-hhha-hhha-hhha-hhha!! How 'bout it? Hhha-hhha-hhha-hhha-hhha-hhha!! Forty miles over the speed limit! You boys gonna be here a spell. Hhha-hhha-hhha-hhha-hhha-hhha!! Hhha-hhha-hhha-hhha-hhha-hhha!!" That's it, cotton pickers, I've done been grounded;My tail's in jail, my rig impounded.So when you're comin' through the Georgia night,Don't ever get no front door called the White Knight. No sir. Wind up in the pokey with Smokey.I'm gonna pull that old CB thing out by the wires.I don't care if it is....

check http://www.wta.org/~wta/cgi-bin/web10.pl?FreshReports+tr+fr+time[/url] for any recent trip reports. [ 03-08-2002: Message edited by: not a climber ]

In archaeological digs, the Pentium man is usually found first. The Apple man is often found 10 feet below, and in at least one instance, further digging has revealed the Selectric man , verified by polyester-14 dating techniques. The newer civilizations have been found to rebuild the cubicles right over the old ones. It is documented that more valuable cubicle furnishings tend to migrate upwards.

Nice shot. http://fototime.com/{A8B066DF-2B4A-42D2-8E57-F6A164E0B9C0}/picture.JPG

Snork! I can see it now. "Stay at our Hotel Pyramidoexelsior and get a 20% discount on your National Window Washing Pass*. The Pyrimado is conveniently located within 2 blocks of the challenging north face of the Federal Building, one of the nations most pristine window washing locations and is a gathering spot for sport washers the world over. Buckets and rags provided**. Free continental breakfast provided. Off season rates applicable." *free pass contingent on 4-day, 5-night stay at the Pyramido, and the purchase of one DayEvent excursion. **bring your own rope [ 02-16-2002: Message edited by: not a climber ]

payaso's plan doesn't sound bad if everyone does it. It bugs me that they say there is alot of support for the fees. It seems like in most of the places I have parked (WA cascades, Snow Lake, Ingalls Lake trailheads...) only about half the cars have the pass displayed. I still suspect that 80% of the money is coming from 3 or 4 main attractions like Mt. St. Helens. I also suspect that if the full program ever makes it through, the enforcement side of it is going to be turned up a notch with heftier fines and closer monitoring. If the people in this great democratic country really support, I submit that it should be submitted to our approval via the ballot.

Two reasons: either there aren't enough girls doing high performance skiing, or they don't complain enough to the manufacturer about their equipment.

I don't like the fees either. The theory is that you should pay to pray er I mean play. Philosophical question: Are play, adventure, and recreation equivalent. Which of the 3 should one have to pay for? Why call it a "demonstration" fee when it's a shoe-in to start with? How much does it cost to enforce the whole thing--show us the accounting please--detailed, and on a website for public viewing! Don't places like Mt. St. Helens bring in the most cash--why extend it to some of the remote places that people like us access? Put a note in your windshield like I do. "Taxes yes, Fees no". Don't let our public "servants" shoe in another a la carte tax. We pay enough on April 15 already. http://www.freeourparks.org/http://www.wildwilderness.org/

no time for haikuing cool snow clings to mountains far unplug tv hit road