Terminal_Gravity

Scott, Your quite the salesman...it sounds like your'e trying to get a date for an ex-girlfreind or something. I am guessing that you are selling the base model. If not let me know. What model year is it and out of curiosity why are you selling it?

Did you ever get this worked out, Will?

Daisy, You're less than 2 hours from the Wallowa Mountains/ Eagle Cap Wilderness. There is more climbing out here than Smith, Fossil & Vantage combined. It is, however, all trad and wild or virgin rock. I am always looking for a rope partner. Let me know if you want to climb. Free Beer PS - Where from in CA? [ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

Anyone ever read the book "Freedom of the Pills"?

I am a big fan of Lowe. I finally replaced my old pair with thier Gadd Glove. Warm, dexterious and flexible, water proof, removeable (and useable) liner, a good keeper system and a bit of knuckle padding.I paid full retail of $80.... almost 1/2 of what the equivalent Varmot or TNF would cost you [ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

Thank you all for the info. I think that I'd better get in a few in the stores before I decide on one. My problem is that the nearest store is 4 hours away. Beck, I am suprised that there is as much room as you say in the Big Wall. That makes it much more atractive.

Bigfoot?

Red, I have a pair of Asolo Double Boots your size that I want to sell for only $40 - they were $340 new. Perfect for mountaineering & moderate ice climbing. The outer boots are in excellent shape...but they are leather. PM me if you are possibly interested. The main reason I am selling them is that they are to snug for me. I wear a size 11 1/2 - 12. [ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

Primate, go on about how to find the gas pressure at a given temperature. I'm way to rusty. I believe that the valve on the canisters acts as a PSV for non use purposes so that they meet DOT standards...but that is just a guess. Attaching the stove will negate the saftey blow off aspect of the valve.

Well Will, Thanks for your CE input. I am not a ME but have done a lot of PE work (mainly food processs). If you need heat transfer, boiler HP or pump sizing then I'm your man. It seems that the two of us should be able to put this problem to rest. The fixes that Beck suggested, I think, would be temporary at best. They may allow enough time on the stove to heat enough water for your ramen but unless the ambient temp is colder than 11°F for pure Iso-Butane (colder for a propane blend), insulating the canister will just make make the fuel freeze faster after it reaches ambient. As Will eluded, it is not the outside temperature that is causing the fuel to freeze it is the heat loss of evaporation and expansion of the gasious fuel that cools the canister. Of course the colder it is outside the less the fuel warms up from the air. The freezing point of Butane is 31°F, Iso-Butane is 11°f and Propane is -43°F. I could not find any precise studies on the freezing temperature of the blended gas that we get in modern canisters (typically 80% Butane & 20% Propane), but clearly it is between 11 and neg. 43. One interesting fact is that the propane boils off of the blend preferentially so that by the time the fuel in the can is 1/3 it is virtually all butane and will freeze up a lot faster. Will's inference about the increased pressure from heating the canister increasing the evaporation rate of the fuel and therefore balancing the temperature is correct only to a point. The stoves have an internal regulator of sorts and will only burn fuel at an predetirmined maximum rate. None of this really addresses the crux of the question. Is the copper wire trick safe? Dan pointed out that "a lot of people do it" is not good enough. I tried, but failed to find the safe maximum pressure rating of those canisters. Their design criteria are regulated by UL 147B and NFPA 58. Does anyone have access to either of these standards...Will? After we find the that out it should be simple for a chemist among us to use the equation PV=nRT and solve for "T" to figure how hot the canister can get before it splits a seam. Sorry about all the Blah Blah Blah [ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

I'm a brewer...it's a good job (all the free beer I want for me & friends). My schedule is flexible. But I think that I like Lambone's tower job the best.

Dan, I agree with your attitude that "lots of people do it" is not a garauntee of safety. I'm sorry that I punked out by saying that. The real question is how warm can the liquid fuel be before its vapor pressure reaches the max design pressure of the canister. I have not looked at butane charts nor do I know what those canisters can hold, but I would bet ( my life) that it is way, way above the temperature that you will get from the wire trick. Especially when the ambient temperature is cold which is when you need it.

There is pretty good incentive for both parties to keep their end of the bargain. If they don't you can make an announcement on this forum and hell will pay

The little wire fix is not insane at all and works very well even in very cold situations. Lots of people do it. Alternately, a person can put about 1/4 inch of warm water in their pan lid and sit the canister (while operating) in it and the pressure is back to normal. With these two fixes no one should be afraid of using these stoves 4 seasons. IMO the auto igniter is dumb anyway. A mini Bic ( with or without fuel or the plastic part for that matter) is fool proof, cheaper and lighter.

Come on Dru! I think that you are sandbaging the real challenge here... clearly, with enough money the most difficult thing is to come up with another "first". I belive that this coming season the first Tuesday ascent by a natural red headed 32 year old female impersonator, will attempt the dreaded moondance on the summit....now thats something I want to see.

Are you TED SHRED of Chico, CA skate fame -by any chance?

Does anyone want to sell theirs or know where I can buy a new one at less than retail. I prefer long. Alternately, I welcome any comments (spray) on what you think is a better single shelter.

Did Terray ( or anyone that was there) give much of a counter story to Herzogs "Annapurna"?

I can't think of many things better than seeing a $5000 carbon fiber bike get trashed (that doesn't involve nekked women).

quote: Originally posted by dbb: jon- all those free form amino acids are pretty expensive. As it is, I can make a "tube" of GU for like .65 cents. I think that adding caffine would be a nice touch though. How big of a tube? Thanks in advance. [ 11-02-2001: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

20 bucks is a fair price for the singles but the cheap way to GU is to buy a case of the 5.5 refill containers. I pay $36.75 for 10 packs or 67 cents/ oz as opposed 75 cents. I admit, I am (mostly) a GU head. Here is my Carbo Gel Manufactor hint of the day..... Whats with the water component of GU. Weight with no caloric benefit. Ethanol has 5.5 calories per gram and helps absorb nutrients through the stomach wall! And besides a quarter ounce of pure alcohol every 45 minutes would make the day so much more pleasant.

I liked the ratings, they are a new fun way to avoid work. The only benifit I can think of, however, is that they may reduce some of the obnoxiuos spray. If the sprayer is interested in keeping their rating. Then again, I assume that it might become the goal of some to earn a low rating. If it does not detract from the real topic spray can be very entertaining.

quote: Originally posted by plexus: I said I'd never buy an ice ax....And I did.I said I'd never cross a glacier....And I did.I said I'd never get engaged....And I did.See a pattern here? Plexus, I think getting engaged was the scariest thing you could have mentioned. The exposure is certainly extreme. You know that is a going to be a good day when you grap the mail, head to the kitchen for some cereal.... and you find your girlfriends picture on the cover of Playboy Your climbing partner on the Wheaties box, and your wife on the milk carton!

All the friends are sold. The boots and Technical axes are still for sale. I also have a a size large dry suit for sale. The gaskets are good but it has a few blackberry bush punctures, easily fixed. Yes only $20. I also have what used to be a very nice Klikatat Fiberglass canoe. Its pretty beat but repairable...$60. And a very nice almost new kayak paddle...$45

Thanks very much for all the great tips. TG