Terminal_Gravity

Hey Tex (you lucky 4 star rated poster) read Carolyns post above ^

Can anybody recommend a ultra light weight down bag in this range. The Marmot H, He, Li series looks good but they seem a bit spendy. I've heard Ushba(sp?) but have no idea who carries them.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

It was along time ago for sure. But I never felt really comfortable leading until I took my first leader fall. I was so hellish gripped, Intellectually I knew I would probably survive. I knew it was about to happen but I never gave up finally muscles failed & I popped. Scraped up and a bit of the wind knocked out of me, but still alive. I rested and finished the pitch. My emotions went through the same thing when I first used a friend. I bought my first few from Jardin in the valley. 25ft out above a 3 cam placement in a flared crack on Half Dome, and the sucker acctually held my 50ft wipper. The moral or my point. Scared is normal but the shit acctually works. I've taken about twenty trad leaderfalls and the worst injury was a broken ankle and I've only zipperd out 2 pieces free climbing. But leading is truly a more rewarding experience then following. You should aspire to it. One comment, even though the system works, don't let yourself fall, try your absolute hardest. The equipment is a back-up. This attitude will re-inforce good climbing habits and make you a better and safer climber. To often mid level sport climbers give up to easily because there are no possible consequinces to a fall. my 10 pesos

Sorry Jon, I posted the above before I read you response to Holly. I do like alot of the new stuff...thanks for your efforts [ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

Ditto on the old PM's even if you could just e-mail them. I have lost contact info on a couple of sales in progress. Also, I could not figure out how to get new PM's from your profile..

Don't get me wrong. I think that incompetent self serving idiots that go into the mountains are one of the most loathsome forms of humans. And to some extent I think that people that pay to be guided up 8000m peaks (and the whore guides that guide them) deserve what they get. But that does not justify a "let them die" attitude in the mountains. It is not always the idiots that get in trouble.

News Flash Internet security forces have apprehended three suspects on this forum... Bin Sleepin, Bin Loafin and Bin Drinkin were found this morning. The fourth member of the cel remains at large. However an unidentified source says that anyone that fits the discription of Bin Workin should be easy to spot among this forum.

Thanks Beck, Can you make a similar reccomendation for outer jackets? And are these fabrics wind proof?

Thanks, mikeadam...I knew I could count on you!

Can anyone recommend a really light harness for alpine work that requires only occasional use? It does not have to be comfy. I have trouble justifying a pound + weight. Even an Alpine bod seems way overbuilt for some aplications. A double length spectra sling turned into a diaper sling is simple but tends to work down the legs when you high step. Also, does any body have a (relativly) cheap source for 70 meters or so of 5.5 spectra cord?

quote: Originally posted by sexual chocolate: I think the only moral imperative is this: If you have children and family, and you really care about them, STAY OFF THE GODDAMN MOUNTAIN! Sexual Chocolate; I think that you are being short sighted. Clearly Scott Fischer was selfish and cared less sbout his family then he should have. Do you know much about Ed Vestiurs (sp?)? I think that he is a perfect example of a top climber that is not a self serving ego-maniac. He is a good father and husband and climbs in a manner that proves it. You climb, maybe not at altitude, but some bolt could fail or you could get hit in the head by a falling rock and you could get seriously hurt or dead. Is that fair to your wife? I think if you climb responsibly, that it is. I'm sure you do to. (Oops SC, I said "your wife"; I let your gender (and preference) out of the bag.)

Haveing an every man for himself attitude is total weak bullshit; at altitude, on a plane with terrorists or anywhere. The absolutly only thing that is moral or ethical is to do one's best to help save a life. You would have a much greater chance leaving your kids parentless if every one had the attitude of fuck them I worring about myself. It might just be your ass on the line some time. If you have never lost someone very close to you, maybe you can't understand how important it is to the loved one's to have every thing possible done to save a person even if ultimately they die while you are trying. Climbing can be dangerous (duh). Part of the exposure equation is that you may need to help someone in harms way. It is a moral imperitive. I helped get a true idiot from another party out of a cravasse in the Himalayas. Clearly, he should have not been there. He and his friends had the gear but not the knowledge to save himself. He would have died if not for us. I'm sure that he learned alot from the experience. All you have to do is imagine the family of the dieing climber and put your own families faces on theirs. Don't ever kid yourself, no matter how experienced you are, it could be you.

Does anybody know what happened to Norgay. I understand that he died climbing. If so, it is sad irony after all the promises to his wife not to climb anymore after Everest.

I am very glad I was misinformed. Sorry for the bother. Jon, I think that it might be appropriate to remove this thread. Thanks.

I totally agree with you, Dru. Part of the problem is that many dogs are out of thier comfort area and start to act territorial. I've been attacked three times while hiking in the wilderness by confused and territorrial dogs. I had to pull my ice axe once and threaten to kill it if the owners could not keep it under control. I saw a dog chase a little girl (hiking with her parents) into a creek. She slipped and bonked her head, ending the trip for the family. All the stupid owner could say was that the dog wouldn't hurt anyone.

I did some little nerve damage thing in my neck last week (stupid human tricks) and my arm is 1/2 numb. I felt my knees needed a break from the last two weekends. So, I thought I would take it easy and I went out to do this local 5.8ish 2 pitch climb with this 65 year old Tai Kwan Do instructor friend of mine who has just climbed in gyms a bit. I have never ever seen any newbie so smooth and clear headed on rock 200ft above the deck. He had a bit of technical difficulty on some of the moves, but totally kept it together in his head. We rappeled the route (I belayed his first 50 ft.) and when I said to just lean back, arch his back and keep pressure on his feet, he did. I was amazed and had a good time.

He was Tenzing Norgay's Son and wrote Touching My Father's Soul ( IMO a very worthwhile read) and was with the IMAX team in '96. Atleast 4 non-climbers I know have mentioned that they heard (or read) he died climbing but were un-able to site references or details. I hope that I'm wrong about his death. Maybe I've been the victim of a rumor mill. [This message has been edited by Terminal Gravity (edited 10-23-2001).]

I do not mean to suggest that I find fault in JK's lack of action. I do think that they are suspect, however. I know how much harder 20,000ft is then 14,000ft. I can't imagine what 26k must feel like after a hard day. so, maybe he did all that could be expected. I also know what it feels like to try to save somebodys life. I almost died trying, and I failed. I am still living with some of the ramifications of the injuries I sustained trying, but that is nothing compared to the emotional trauma I live with. I don't feel any ill will for JK for what he did or didn't do on the mountain; I wasn't there. I do take issue with what he wrote and especially with the fact that he never publically recanted his views on Boukereiv.

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quote: Originally posted by lambone: Hey TG, I bet you'd be singin' a different tune if you had a sled! How bout some ice tools, how many points will they dock you!!??? Okay, Lambone. You caught me...you're right I don't have a sled, I don't have a jet ski either. But I have had fun on both. I think that there is a time and a place for every outdoor activity as long as it doesn't have permanent harm in a wilderness area or doesn't preclude the enjoyment of others. I think that style is a personnel choice. I have only climbed naked once. Free solo of some little 5.3 70 ft piece of shit at J Tree at night; drunk. But I was wearing a head light (lost a point). I think most would agree that if you climb succesfully with less techno stuff the sense of acomplishment is better. But climbing an 11 with a rope and sticky rubber is more of an accomplishment than a 5.3 naked. I own five ice tools; Two of which are the original Lowe Hummingbirds and even if it means losing a style point for me I think that I will feel more accomplished if I can climb harder ice by buying more modern tools. [This message has been edited by Terminal Gravity (edited 10-23-2001).]

You guy's should read Chouinard's view on the difference between Style & Ethics. It's in "Voices from the Summit" and im sure has been published elsewhere. Basically, Style is a personnal choice that does not effect others. Climing naked is the only pure style. Wear shoes, dock a style point. Wear sticky rubber dock an additional point. Use a snow mobile, dock a thousand. Ethics enfringe on other climbers. I have a lot less problem with some yeahhoo wearing heated jackets than I do with people using chalk on wild rock. (Before any feathers get ruffeled; I have no problem with chalk in established areas) Snowmobiles are another thing entirely. If I had to smell the exaust and listen to the noise in a wilderness area I might just be forced to pull out my lightweight plastic subcompact 9mm...and settle the matter.

Jon, I don't understand why you closed the thread on Krakaur. Sure there was the typical spray, but less than on most forums that get the interest of more than 75 posts. I personnally think that it was an interesting thread. I hope that you don't get pissed at this lame attempt to re-open it. I've read over 10 books that have dealt with 5/10/96 on Everest and am still curious about something. If J Krakaur was so much stronger than all of the other cleints and had to wait around (resting) why did he just let people die instead of helping. Yes, we know its hard, but people died and I find him atleast partially responsible. So to me it doesn't matter if he is a nice guy or a good writer. I think that he made one of the worst mistakes a person can make (in life or the mountains)...he pussed out while people died; and then he blamed others. [This message has been edited by Terminal Gravity (edited 10-22-2001).] [This message has been edited by Terminal Gravity (edited 10-22-2001).]

Oh Yeah; Any thing on Baffin.......... and to climb Chomulungma without any other parties around and without paying the permit fee. And while I'm dreaming I might as well meet the woman version of Mark Twight and have her drag my fat ass up all kinds of scary shit; have sex to keep warm on terrible bivies useing GU for lube ; and then have her dump me and break my heart 'cause I'm to lame.

Good Thread Matt; Sorry I came in late. Lizard Brain, I took a course and got my license in sky diving. I jumped once on my own with a full licence and never jumped again. BORING! Except for doing those group formations it is about as much fun as riding a good rollercoaster and takes about as much skill. My goal in my disipline is to Solo Mt. Logan. My out of disipline dream is off shore sailing and to become a better aid climber. My deep dark secret is to be one of those people that survive a true epic and live to tell about it. You know...break a femur and crawl out for 5 days and have to eat your dog.