Jim

I doubt you'll find closures were 'carefully documented' except in areas where there was active monitoring resources which is likely a small percentage of closures. Given all the closures were of at least some minimum size (say 300m), I don't suspect you'd find much in the data other than overall closures work. From my experience it's more to do with site specific conditions. If a pair is nesting in the same spot year after year then a more focused approach can be taken to minimize the buffer distance. If a pair nests in different locations year to year then a more conservative approach is warranted. Other factors, such as line-of-site view, use of cliffs by other raptors, intensity of recreation use int he area often are considerations. My biased view is that the cliffs are more than an extesion of the climbing gym and restrictions can easily be accomodated.

Who climbs in plastic? Everyone I ran into in Bolivia. I was up high for a month and used Scarpa Invernos. Light and warm. Up high I had every piece of clothing on including a soft shell upper and my down jacket. Feet were comfortable, a little cold early morning near 20k ft.

Just for clarity - I not arguing that those unfortunate steps were not necessary, just that they illustrate that private enterprises can be as screwed up, if not more, than public run entities.

While I think there's a handful of items that government could hand over to private industry - liquor stores for one - I don't think the Port is a good example. If it were run by a private industry - yea THEY would make a profit of some sort and WE would end up paying for infrastructure upgrades that were "outside the scope of standard operating procedures". Shoot - from the abundant craters around us from private indurstry nosedives it doesn't appear that private companies can run automobile manufacturing, banking, insurance companies, risk analysis firms and a multitude of other endeavors. Boeing gets huge tax breaks, energy companies get subsidies of all sorts, and corporate farms get corn subsidies. The idea that there is some inherent market efficiency spread like jam over all human actions is a crock. Like anything else, it just depends on who is running the show.

There's state statues protecting the bird as well. The Migratory Bird Act pertains to all migrating birds but is selectively enforced. Let's just say the chickadees are not as high on the list as peregines. Raptors, as top-end predators can be susceptible to any number of factors, but human disturbance can make them abandon their nest at critical times or affect the well-being of the nestlings. After not having peregrines around for so long in suitable habitat the resource agencies are making efforts to place adequate human-use controls on disruptive activities - such as climbing near nests - to aid in their continued occupancy. Think about it - what other critter do they have to worry about getting near their nest?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm Federal employees earn higher average salaries than private-sector workers in more than eight out of 10 occupations, a USA TODAY analysis of federal data finds. Accountants, nurses, chemists, surveyors, cooks, clerks and janitors are among the wide range of jobs that get paid more on average in the federal government than in the private sector. Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691 in 2008 for occupations that exist both in government and the private sector, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available. These salary figures do not include the value of health, pension and other benefits, which averaged $40,785 per federal employee in 2008 vs. $9,882 per private worker, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. But National Treasury Employees Union President Colleen Kelley says the comparison is faulty because it "compares apples and oranges." Federal accountants, for example, perform work that has more complexity and requires more skill than accounting work in the private sector, she says. "When you look at the actual duties, you see that very few federal jobs align with those in the private sector," she says. She says federal employees are paid an average of 26% less than non-federal workers doing comparable work. Office of Personnel Management spokeswoman Sedelta Verble, says higher pay also reflects the longevity and older age of federal workers. USA TODAY used Bureau of Labor Statistics data to compare salaries in every federal job that had a private-sector equivalent. For example, the federal government's 57,000 registered nurses — working for the Veterans Administration and elsewhere — were paid an average of $74,460 a year, $10,680 more than the average for private-sector nurses. The BLS reports that 216 occupations covering 1.1 million federal workers exist in both the federal government and the private sector. An additional 124 federal occupations covering 750,000 employees — air-traffic controllers, tax collectors and others — did not have direct equivalents, according to the BLS. What? Federal jobs have more limited salary ranges than private-sector jobs, some of which have million-dollar payouts. Key findings: • Federal. The federal pay premium cut across all job categories — white-collar, blue-collar, management, professional, technical and low-skill. In all, 180 jobs paid better average salaries in the federal government; 36 paid better in the private sector. •Private. The private sector paid more on average in a select group of high-skill occupations, including lawyers, veterinarians and airline pilots. The government's 5,200 computer research scientists made an average of $95,190, about $10,000 less than the average in the corporate world. Not considering benefits •State and local. State government employees had an average salary of $47,231 in 2008, about 5% less than comparable jobs in the private sector. City and county workers earned an average of $43,589, about 2% more than private workers in similar jobs. State and local workers have higher total compensation than private workers when the value of benefits is included.

Go Storm!

Yea. They got discounted loans and tax credits. Anything different (a lot less) than you think the oil industry and natural gas is getting? Don't see your point. About your larger point of this not being a viable industry, well that's by the wayside.

Seems that the financial experiment of the last 10 years is a pretty good indicator of trying Plan B - some regulation is needed. Duh.

Join us on Sept. 23 at Patagonia Seattle and on Sept. 24 at the Northwest Film Forum for the Wild and Scenic Film Festival on tour – a selection of environmentally themed films produced by small, independent filmmakers from around the world. From the impassioned to the whimsical, festival films cover a wide range of subject matter from climbing expeditions in Africa, to sustainable farming in the United States, to surfing the Snake River. Friends of the Cedar River Watershed is hosting the festival and will share with you their Watershed Report – a survey of the Cedar River Watershed reported and produced by area high school students. They’re also holding an amateur photo contest. Tickets are $8 in advance; $10 at the door. Advance tickets and contest information are available at cedarriver.org, Brown Paper Tickets and at the Patagonia Seattle store. The festival is sponsored by Patagonia, Osprey Packs, Clif Bar, Sierra Nevada Brewing, Magnolia Audio Visual, and Tom’s of Maine. Thursday, September 23, 7-9 pm At Patagonia Seattle, 2100 First Ave., Seattle, 206-622-9700 Films: Lady Bug Swarm, A Story of STRAW, The Watershed Report, Get Up Stand Up, Peter and Ben, Way Point Namibia Directions to the store Friday, September 24, 6:30-8:30 pm At Northwest Film Forum, 1515 12th Ave, Seattle Films: The Fun Theory, Ascending Giants, Flathead Wild, The Watershed Report, Planting Hope, Nature Propelled Directions to the Northwest Film Forum Friends of the Cedar River Watershed is a non-profit organization inspiring conservation and protection of local watersheds through restoration, education, and stewardship. The Friends focus on working with community volunteers to improve fish and wildlife habitat, educate river visitors and community members, and engage community groups and governments in water quality improvements.

Just reacting to what you said to PP. Your wrong. It wasn't racist. Wrongly suggestive of something nefarious? Yes. Just as no one takes FW seriously because of his constant rants and lack of a coherent argument, you're doing a decent job filling up the liberal side of the quota. Personally, I stop listening when the volume gets too shrill. Oh to be pure.

Regurgitating racist propaganda is racism. who the fucks care if we can't tell the difference? Dude. Dial it down.

I'm not blaming public employees for anything. But when they are paid by the public from taxes there needs to be some reasonable give and take in the system. I'm a bit miffed that King County, for a specific example, has chosen NOT to negoiate with the union to have employees pay a higher share of thier medical benefits. Given the extremely large deficts that are looming it's a mystery to me because there will be more layoffs without it. Should everyone, private sector and public, have access to health care without the screwed up system we have now? Of course. But that is a larger systematic issue and in the meantime having higher, public funded benefits seems out of wack.

Gohere: http://www.solarmillennium.de/Investors/Information_for_Shareholders_and_Interested_Parties_,lang2,4.html Download latest Annual Report Go to page 71. Jesus. Well not to get off track on the discussion - but yes, it verifies what I said, they are getting investment tax credits in the way of accelerated depreciation. And as far us being an unviable industry they are looking pretty good as of, well today! http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2010/09/17/17greenwire-calif-oks-major-solar-project-slated-for-feder-36415.html

Well no, you don't have examples. Just generalizations.

That's a pretty sweeping statement. And because I haven't studied it I can only go my experience and here's a couple of contrasting examples. When I worked for the feds there was a guy, who on my first week in the office explained to me that when I travelled during the next month how I could pad my expense report to make some money. This is the same guy who had an office tucked back in an out of the way place - purposely put there because they didn't know what else to do with him and didn't whan the paper chase of trying to fire him - where he would bring a couple beers into work in the afternoon three times a week. Then there was the supervisor who wanted a promotion but couldn't get one because he had to supervise a certain number of GS-12 employees. So he promoted an incompetent person just to get his quota. Then there was the series of folks who just took sick days as if they were added vacation days. In my private sector jobs if you didn't cut the mustuard you were out. We hired one bright and promising person who turned out to be a lunch time drinker. After a couple warnings and offers to help with no response he was fired. No dancing around. I hired an ecologist who looked good on paper but after several months it was apparant she oversold herself. Couldn't afford to keep someone on to warm a chair so we gave her a small and fair severance and hired another person. While I don't advocate the private model for all of the public sector there needs to be a bit of belt tightening - particularly with the benefits, in these economic times.

In general I don't see an issue with the paper - their assumptions are ones that any statistician has to make when relying on such data sets, and they seem reasonable. But - one item did catch my eye: There's no comparison of pension benifits vs. what they would have earned at the same salary for social security. Having worked for a state, the feds, and private industury, here's what I've found: Private employees are generally paid at a higher wage than public employees - but there is a higher expectation of workload and no comp time. Public employees have more generous benefits such as sick time, health benefits, holidays, and matches to 401ks. Public employees stick to a 40 hr work week or less (but certainly not teachers!). I tried to recruit an ecologist from the UW and could not match his salary request because we couldn't bill out his hourly rate at his level of experience. He was requesting this higher salary to make up for our lesser benefits and the 100% 401k match he gets at the UW. Couldn't do it. Deadwood - much less of it in the private sector. In the public sector I found there was always some percentage (15%?) of folks not pulling their weight and just hiding. They got a reputation of incompetence so folks would not give them much work, so they were not so busy. If you were competent then more work came your way. We called it the 80/20 rule - 80% of the work got done by 20% of the staff. I'm all for reasonable work expectations but found this living off the dole appalling. Exceptions - I find these groups to generally have extremely tough jobs and they are underpaid for the shite they put up with and the hours they put in: teachers and cops.

Oh dear. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

The RNC is certainly hoping for such. I'm thinking that it would help if moderate republicans (alive?) would denounce the wacko far right portion of their party, ya know, just as they advocate for the moderate Muslims.

Ho-ly cow. Just when you think repulicans can't pick a more stupid candidate to hang their hopes on, well there ya go. If the trend continues the Dems will pick up seats.

It's all about how her endorsees do in the midterms. I'm giddy with anticipation! And Tina Fey's thoughts?

Yes, I'm okay with that. The fact that there will always be such people should not be an excuse not to work toward the "best circumstances" possible. Keep that whole 'all men are created equal' thing going, you know? No one can argue with that. But let's wait - 3,2,1..FW?

You're stetching my statments 'me thinks. Not to sound too much like JayB but I guess it depends on how you parse my term of "loser". But to think that somehow we as a society are going to figure out a way so everyone can sustain a $50k income - well it ain't going to happen. Under the best of circumstances there are always going to be some folks, even if given the right opportunities, will fall short for lack of motivation, too much reality TV, or the desire to emulate the Dude. Can we make progress on the undeniable flow of money and power to the top - yes. Will it ever be a perfect society - no. We're dealing with humans here.