Fairweather

There is no doubt that population growth is the main component of the larger ecological crisis. But the only problem with your data is that even as the PNW has continued to grow, wilderness visits here and elsewhere continue to decline in real numbers. Likely because of the same complaints I aired above. Why are you OK with tightening restrictions on access? There's really no need for it--other than power and money. The biggest problem is that less visits equals less advocacy, long term. The link below is 2008, but by the USFS's own 2013 account, visitation has since been flat. In any event, don't you have a philosophical problem with being stopped in the back country and asked to produce a permit? http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/11/national_forests_see_fewer_vis.html The figures are estimates based on surveys and counts around each national forest. Total forest visits dropped from 204.8 million in 2004 to 178.6million in 2007, a 13 percent decline. Visits to Oregon and Washington national forests fell from 28.2 million in 2004 to 20.5 million in 2007, a 27 percent drop. That's the sharpest percentage drop of any Forest Service region in the country. The next largest drop was 24.3 percent decline in the Forest Service's Eastern Region, which encompasses several Midwest and northeastern states. The long-term outlook--a dramatic per-capita decrease and not much increase in real numbers: http://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs/rmrs_p049/rmrs_p049_367_373.pdf

What, exactly, was Vern's "consequential" mistake again?

Oly, I can think of few freedoms more basic than the one that allows us all to enjoy the unimproved commons untaxed and without having to show papers to some government agent. What's more, the absurdity of the current state of affairs in places like the Enchantments can be argued from either side of the political spectrum. This is to say there is lots to dislike about fees and permits--whether you believe outdoor recreation is being commoditized by government-private sector collusion, or simply being strangled by the new nanny-state green police. The result is the same. Frankly, I'm surprised that you and others here are such conformists. Would you tolerate being randomly asked by an agent of government to show a permit in order to walk down the street? Hell no, I suspect. So why should you or Vernman23--or even Max have to tolerate it on a back country trail? As for LMA, well, I think it's sad when certain associations--who claim to speak for us all--are used by the USFS as dupes. And while the efforts of interest groups like LMA, WCC, ACC, etc., to work within an ever-tightening set of pointless government rules is laudable, they always miss the larger point. Thoreau, Muir, Leopold, Marshall, Abbey all viewed personal freedom as one of wilderness's best, most liberating features. Apparently conformity is now more important. Welcome to the new world, I guess. Don't forget to bring the correct attitude--and your papers.

Well done, Leavenworth Mountain Association. http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1112791/1

Glad you only want to educate now. We can just ignore you. Still, you sounded like a pretty angry fella in your original post: Just because I lay down a skin track doesn't mean I own it--or the mountain upon which it sits. Snowshoers have just as much right to economize their physical output as they move through taxing terrain as the rest of us. This isn't to say common courtesy is dead--but the issue isn't worth initiating a confrontation. Pete, don't be surprised if your efforts to "educate" others earns you a middle finger--often. :thumbsup: to Ivan.

...asks the irate skier who lives in a fake Bavarian village.

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This Congressional action sets a good precedent that puts the historic preservation language within the Wilderness Act on solid ground and puts to rest nonsensical claims made in this case and in others that "wilderness preservation trumps historic preservation." I think it's important to let both Cantwell and Murray know that their work was appreciated and I have sent letters to both expressing my gratitude. I hope others will do the same.

Well said. We are now two years past the twenty-year "reevaluation" called for in the 1992 EA that closed WSR--and the folks at MORA have chosen to simply ignore their own mandate. To be fair, they are restoring the ("their") patrol cabin at Lake George (and the one at Ipsut too), but it really bugs me when I see NPS staff cruising around on quads and in pickup trucks back-and-forth all the way out to Klapatche Point while everyone else walks or bicycles. (This latter practice they'll eventually ban too, I'm sure.) Definitely some bureaucratic class-ism taking place at all three of our state's major national parks. Sadly, MORA is not the worst. Anyhow, great TR Dave. Enjoyed your tales of adventure.

I agree, WB. I would go a step further and ask why the WRR was gated in the first place. Cutting locks isn't everybody's cup of tea, and I don't recommend it, but if I were Dave & Co I wouldn't be too quick to just roll over for the guys with the uniforms and the big hats. http://www.nps.gov/mora/planyourvisit/winter-recreation.htm#CP_JUMP_147158 In the southwest corner of the park, snowmobiles are permitted for 6.5 miles along the Westside Road from its junction with the main park road as far as Round Pass. Beyond Round Pass, the Westside Road is closed to snowmobile use. Snowmobiles are also permitted on all the road loops of Cougar Rock Campground. The campground is closed to overnight use during winter and the roadway is left unplowed. Contact a park ranger at the Longmire Information Center for maps and additional snowmobile information. On the north side of the park, no ranger station is open in the winter. The US Forest Service District Office in Enumclaw provides information and maps for White River, Carbon River, and Mowich Lake areas. For more information, call the USFS District Office in Enumclaw at (360) 825-6585. Highway 410 is closed near its junction with Crystal Mountain Ski Area road, at the north park boundary. Snowmobiles are permitted on the 12-mile section of unplowed road from the north park boundary on Highway 410 to the White River Campground. Snowmobiles may not continue on Hwy 410 south of the White River Road turnoff. They are also prohibited from proceeding beyond the closure at the White River Campground road junction towards Sunrise. Snowmobiles must stay on the road corridor; they are not allowed to proceed beyond the campground towards Glacier Basin. Be aware of avalanche danger and the weather forecast.

Some pretty wild mood swings for a single day. Even for our local megalomaniac. Sounds like someone needs to have a talk with their doctor about regulating those 'scrips.

Sorry to disappoint, Dave. But I truly believe that when you happen upon someone masturbating against a mirror, the polite thing to do is turn around and quietly walk away unnoticed.

Signed it. A good cause.

An amusing analysis from the site's libtard "community"--including its #1 psycho, even. Forgive me if I'm not moved. Am I a victim here? Uhhh, no. I just think it would be great if TTK would stop using racial, misogynistic, and homophobic slurs--like he's been asked to do many, many times before. If he's not going to be held to the posted rules, then what you have here is not a community, rather, it's a private sandbox.

Since I am regularly the recipient of words like idiot, dumbass, dumbfuck, bafoon, etc., etc.--not to mention the constant attacks on my intellect and things like "you should move to Alabama"--it shouldn't surprise anyone that I return the favor from time to time. As for the more hateful and vulgar words that your friend TTK seems so fond of, yes, he crosses the line way too often--and it's not a line that's all that hard to see, Ivan. Again, I really don't mind most of the words you & yours call me or put in my mouth--and I'll give them right back--but there are a handful that cross the line. They aren't words I say or think, so yes, I do get upset when someone uses them to caricature me this way. You should tell him, as his friend, to exercise more self-control and to knock it off.

How sad, you still don't get it. Not interested in your point; just your poor sourcing, your hypocrisy, and, well, your toolness. Reading comprehension, Prole. Not one of your strong areas. I've posted it again for you since it didn't stick the first time.

Since Prole takes the prize for "attack the messenger" schtick ala FoxNews citation accusations that always prove false, it was surprising (not really) to see him post up a Nation/Maddow link he knew was "libtard" (his words). As for your homosexual reference above, well, you should tone that down--again. Better yet, show me where I've ever said anything even remotely close. Prole called me "Dumbass," so I called him a Dumbfuck or something along those lines. Hey, if the shoe fits...

Face it, Prole, you're really just not all that intelligent--especially with that old parallel cable you've got running from Rachael Maddow's ass into your left ear socket. You should disconnect it immediately and try to upgrade your entire system. Maybe take advantage of that scholarship you just won!

How sad, you still don't get it. Not interested in your point; just your poor sourcing, your hypocrisy, and, well, your toolness. Now run along little monkey. Shoooo...

"News" from the fringes. You take it way more seriously than others, I guess.

No, where I'm "going" with this is that you need to stop drooling over left-kooky media and do a little background/research of your own from time-to-time. Especially since you like to (erroneously) hurl the same accusation at others here. Step up. Practice what you preach. Swish that Kool-Aid around in your mouth before you swallow. Spit it out every now and then. You stupid fuck.

The infographic, you know, the one quoted in the piece, the one that doesn't say anything about fracking? Yeah, at the bottom it's credited to the Oklahoma USGS. Really, is this how you plan on spending the rest of your life? As a buffoon? Geeeez, are you really this dense? The graphic is most certainly NOT from the USGS. It is Maddow's--and cobbled together with hand-selected data from the USGS site. The citation placed in the graphic is poor form, no doubt. But this is what you get when you watch MSNBC. (Try the right-click inspect element thing. It's not hard.) But in any event, it makes no connection between the events and the wells. The story simply speculates on a connection. Get it? Is this stuff really that hard for you?

Congratulations!! You are the recipient of this year's Kevbone 9/11-Truther Scholarship Award. Redeemable at the alternative school of your choice.* *Sorry, but certain minimum academic requirements may apply.

Embarrassed? Well did the USGS say it? or didn't they?

Hmmm, just above you wrote "actually the US Geological Survey said it." But they really didn't, did they Prole. You should just let this one go--and try to source that which feeds your selective hysteria a little better in the future.