Fairweather

It's not the President's place to tell Congress to do anything. In fact, the American people regularly gridlock govt at the midterm to check the executive branch. Works both ways. It's also worth noting, FYI, that bills are supposed to originate in the House. The fact that Harry Reid's Senate came up with an Obama rubber-stamp bill means jack. Then, of course, there is always the lack of action during the 2009-2011 Democrat-controlled Congress. Obama has played politics with the law, with the recent election he thought Democrats had a chance-in-hell of winning, and with the lives of the very immigrants he claims to champion.

No need for shrillness this time, Matt. I'll just say that the oft-repeated "number of executive orders" argument is not relevant. It is the content of the order(s) that is important. For example, you'd agree with me that FDR's Order 9066 was far more consequential--not to mention unconstitutional and immoral--than an order issued under the Antiquities Act? So it is with Obama's exercising an order of "prosecutorial discretion" re immigration. It's beyond his power to do--unless, of course, he is allowed to do it. I suspect your tune will change when the next Republican president uses it. Rest assured, mine won't. As for this "ObamaCare was a Republican idea," well, I assume you are referring to Romney's Massachusetts program? Not at all the same. If you are referring to something else, I'd love to hear it. In any event, I recall that in the past you've expressed serious misgivings about Obama's handing out of "executive exemptions" to unions, corporations, Federal agencies, etc. Have you changed your mind? Finally, I have absolutely no idea where you came up with the Iraq withdrawl thing. Obama's announced and full withdrawl is exactly what Bush warned against. In the end, I doubt it made much of a difference as the chaos we see there was ordained the day we toppled Saddam. I know you've pushed the true names thing for years, and I can see your point--to a point. You know my name, and I know yours. And we both know that neither of us is going to come knocking on the others door or start ringing the phone. There are others here I'm not so sure about, so I think the anonymity remains warranted. Hope all is well--and Happy T-Day.

Think about what you have written here.

Hmm, defunding universities, defunding science, defunding arts…. sound familiar? You live in Washington State, no? Run by Democrats for, what, going on 35 years? Exactly who has been defunding education?? Still, what do you think about the President's powers re immigration and line-item power on ACA?

Not on a scale like this. Here's what the Constitution says: Article I - The Legislative Branch Section 8 Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States; Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes; Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States; Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures; Clause 6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States; Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads; Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; Clause 9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court; Clause 10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations; Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; Clause 13: To provide and maintain a Navy; Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces; Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; Clause 17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. Here's a movie scene you may be able to relate to more effectively: Anakin Skywalker: I don’t think the system works. Padmé: How would you have it work? Anakin Skywalker: We need a system where the politicians sit down and discuss the problem… agree what’s in the best interest of all people… and then do it. Padmé: That’s exactly what we do. The trouble is that people don’t always agree. Anakin Skywalker: Well, then they should be made to. Padmé: By whom? Who’s going to make them? Anakin Skywalker: I don’t know. Someone. Padmé: You? Anakin Skywalker: Of course not me. Padmé: But someone. Anakin Skywalker: Someone wise. Padmé: Sounds an awful lot like a dictatorship to me. Anakin Skywalker: Well, if it works.

Doug, A thoughtful reply, much appreciated. I will point out a couple of things I disagree with. First, think what you want about the Iraq War; Bush went to Congress to authorize it. Did he lie to get an authorization passed? You no doubt say yes--and I'll say he was poorly informed. Still, he went to Congress and made a case. And negotiated. Why is it beneath Obama to do the same? Second, I'm not sure where you draw your line between rhetoric and hyperbole, but my use of "shitbag" no doubt puts it in the latter category. I never pretended otherwise. As you yourself said, this isn't a debating session, and given the thousands of gems that were leveled by posters here against our former president, I don't think my words are beyond the pale. Were you as outraged then? Anyhow, I do think the process is more important than any ideal--or single man, or perceptions of "leadership." And I do think this president is setting very dangerous precedents. Americans seem to prefer negotiation and compromise as a solution to the very gridlock they impose mid-term. Obama is thumbing his nose at the path out. And that's not hyperbole.

First, Democrats controlled Congress for Obama's first two years in office. Why wasn't there urgency then? Second, you don't seem to have a grasp on how American government is structured. Congress isn't there to do whatever the President wants ala Putin's Russia. There is a process. And Obama, clearly, thinks the process is beneath him.

This kind of language only serves to further expose you. You won't care of course, but you should... d Not sure why. (Please tell me.) Meantime, feel free to defend a president who has no regard for the Constitution re immigration law or his own healthcare law, uses the IRS as a political tool, spies on citizens and allies alike, and uses the Justice Dept to harass reporters. Like I said, thanks for the dictator. You should be ashamed.

But for now, I'd settle for Joe Biden.

yup. then yer shitbag - whoya got in mind? Someone who believes in individual liberty and separation of powers.

Well hail fucking Cesar. Two more years of this shit bag?

Now now, Jim, the tvashtar mini me me me thread manifesto is a long-standing tradition here. Rumor has it he cries as he writes. As for association, speech, petition protections, well, if only he were as enthusiastic about the rest. Clearly, he thinks it's a buffet.

SPD's response--bicycles and sidearms--was a lot more appropriate than the armored vehicles, M4s, shotguns, and tactical fantasy costumes seen elsewhere. IMO

Maybe not consciously. Still, a soldier's mission is different than that of a police officer. Citizens should be able to tell the two apart--and the hardware and tactics employed by the latter is making this more and more difficult.

[video:youtube]JUDSeb2zHQ0

Well, there's always that young lady's Bulger 100 celebration thread--where you're free to continue wearing any lampshade that fits your ego.

not so suprising really - very popular ideas at the time, no? can't argue w/ the basic premise in the clip though "you must know a dozen or so people who are of no use" anyhow, worth pointing out a line from his wiki entry: "Shaw often used satiric irony to mock those who took eugenics to inhumane extremes and commentators have sometimes failed to take this into account." Once again, Ivan, you are taking a snippet and running with it. And, not surprisingly, I see your meat-filled haul-bag has chimed in on yet another topic he knows little to nothing about. Eugenics was entirely bankrupt--even then--so it's surprising to see you are defending Shaw's "layered" version. In any event, my original point was a response to your question about national leadership. Hard to imaging a more arrogant ass than Shaw. (Well, with the exception of cc.com's rotund megalomaniac anyhow.) Here's the whole entry; there's plenty to go around: Shaw delivered speeches on the theory of eugenics and he became a noted figure in the movement in England.[80] Shaw's play Man and Superman (1903) has been said to be "invested with eugenic doctrines" and "an ironic reworking" of Nietzsche's concept of Übermensch.[80][81] The main character in the play, John Tanner, is the author of "The Revolutionist's Handbook and Pocket Companion", which Shaw published along with his play. The Revolutionist's Handbook includes chapters on "Good Breeding" and "Property and Marriage". In the "Property and Marriage" section, Tanner writes: To cut humanity up into small cliques, and effectively limit the selection of the individual to his own clique, is to postpone the Superman for eons, if not for ever. Not only should every person be nourished and trained as a possible parent, but there should be no possibility of such an obstacle to natural selection as the objection of a countess to a navvy or of a duke to a charwoman. Equality is essential to good breeding; and equality, as all economists know, is incompatible with property. In this Shaw was managing to synthesize eugenics with socialism, his best-loved political doctrine. This was a popular concept at the time.[82] Shaw in 1905 When, in 1910, Shaw wrote that natural attraction rather than wealth or social class should govern selection of marriage partners, the concept of eugenics did not have the negative connotations it later acquired after having been adopted by the Nazis of Germany.[83] Shaw sometimes treated the topic in a light-hearted way, pointing out that if eugenics had been thought about some generations previously, he himself may not have been born, so depriving humanity of his great contributions.[84] He seems to have maintained his opinion throughout his life.[83] As with many of the topics that Shaw addressed, but particularly so in his examination of the "social purity" movement, he used irony, misdirection and satire to make his point.[75][85][86] At a meeting of the Eugenics Education Society of 3 March 1910 he suggested the need to use a "lethal chamber" to solve their problem. Shaw said: "We should find ourselves committed to killing a great many people whom we now leave living, and to leave living a great many people whom we at present kill. We should have to get rid of all ideas about capital punishment ..." Shaw also called for the development of a "deadly" but "humane" gas for the purpose of killing, many at a time, those unfit to live.[87] In a newsreel interview released on 5 March 1931, dealing with alternatives to the imprisonment of criminals, Shaw says You must all know half a dozen people at least who are no use in this world, who are more trouble than they are worth. Just put them there and say Sir, or Madam, now will you be kind enough to justify your existence? If you can't justify your existence, if you're not pulling your weight in the social boat, if you're not producing as much as you consume or perhaps a little more, then, clearly, we cannot use the organizations of our society for the purpose of keeping you alive, because your life does not benefit us and it can't be of very much use to yourself.[88][89] Shaw often used satiric irony to mock those who took eugenics to inhumane extremes and commentators have sometimes failed to take this into account.[80][90] Some noticed that this was an example of Shaw satirically employing the reductio ad absurdum argument against the eugenicists' wilder aspirations: The Globe and The Evening News recognised it as a skit on the dreams of the eugenicists, though many others in the press took his words out of their satirical context. Dan Stone of Liverpool University writes: "Either the press believed Shaw to be serious, and vilified him, or recognised the tongue-in-cheek nature of his lecture".[90][91]

Nothing--and I mean nothing--gets the pure-blood science geeks riled up more than a lowly Saganesque popularizer raking in that capitalist dinero effectivo. As for Shaw, yes, he was a supporter of the eugenics movement. And a socialist.

Not that your choices represent anything close to reality, but I'd take the idiots over the arrogant. [video:youtube]xagSvfyFCWQ

isn't that what the whole platonic philosopher-king thang was all about? I'm thinking that Plato's disdain for democracy--a view commonly held by philosophers throughout the age of reason--bears a remarkable resemblance to the arrogance of scientists that is cited here. Come to think, it also looks a great deal like the arrogance of the theocratic despots who came before. May God and the Collective Consciousness and the Cold Universe somehow conspire to protect us all from the arrogance of these human beings.

Perhaps we should replace our republic with a directorate composed exclusively of the best and brightest scientists?

That's what binoculars are for. Not to worry though, the police are on the people's side. I think. baa

Don't know about the cop who shot the guy. But this cop otta be on trial. Along with his CO.

I think Lincoln's supposed fears were realized during the excesses of the Gilded Age which, in turn, were partially reconciled during the Teddy Roosevelt/Taft/Progressive/Fordism era, which, in turn, were offset during the Harding/Cal/Hoover days, which, in turn, were back-lashed under FRD's New Deal, which, in turn, were partially offset by a booming post-WWII industrial economy, offset by LBJ/Nixon/Carter, offset by Reagan/Bush, swing to Clinton, back to GW, and so it goes. The pendulum swings back and forth and I don't really think it takes much imagination or effort to make a case for presidential prescience. Still, the details remain important, IMO. By November of 1864 Lincoln pretty much knew the war was won. Nevertheless, I doubt that the rise of corporations was foremost on his list of worries.

Mr Crawford is practicing the trade of the historian, that is, synthesizing attributed data to arrive at a particular conclusion. This is quite different than putting one's conclusion into the form of a (mis)quote and passing it off as part of the record. Not saying this is what you were doing, rather, that preserving the record is worth more than scoring political points in the here and now. Particularly troubling when you look back on this thread and see how easily it was soaked up by doug (aka "d"), Astrov, others.