Dan_Petersen

Best laugh I've had in a while! That CPU don't need no stinkin' fan. To carry on with the car comparisons, pull that damn oil filter, those stupid engineers are just too conservative. You'll save tons of power because of the shorter distance the oil has to be pumped. Oh, and drain out the extra oil too, so you can save even more power. I stand by Hikerwa's advance, if the noise bothers you, turn up the stereo, in another couple years you'll be half deaf like me and you won't care about little things like fan noise.

I think you must have been verrry polite to that officer. My last encounter was more than two years ago on the North Cascades highway. I was riding on two wheels at the time. I was running at an indicated 120, and just happened to drop back to about 80 when approached by the WSP heading the opposite direction. A quick glance in the mirror tells the tail, all brake lights. I immediately pull over and am un-helmeted when he pulls up. "What's the hurry?" "Oh, no hurry, really". Yadda yadda. I get off with nothing but a verbal, since I think he is somewhat puzzled to find an old guy on the bike and not a rickey racer with an attitude. Anyway, sounds like the visit to the courthouse was worth the trip. Highway 9 is not the ride it used to be, is it?

Well, now pardner, there's movie cowboys and real cowboys. I think people like Trask view Bush as a movie cowboy, but I think he might be closer to real cowboys I've known. Let me describe their traits from my perspective. 1. They always look for trouble, because it's fun, in a testosterone kinda way, bar fights and such. 2. Far too stupid to be afraid of much, generally learning only by the 2X4 method, usually applied to the face, repeatedly. 3. Were pretty sure that anything their buddies told 'em at the bar last night was right, and even if it was outrageous, it was still useful to argue about. See point 1 above. 4. They defend their friends to the death, regardless of the friend's qualities, good or bad. 5. They will fuck snakes, ewes, goats, cattle, whatever, as long as it stays still. 6. They can fake good manners as necessary. 7. They are honest, except regarding debt payment. They don't consider a debt to someone they don't like as being repayable, unless forced, usually by threatened repossession of the pickup. 8. They speak their minds and they believe they speak the truth, and they don't listen at all. 9. They are well respected at the local saloon, while generally laughed at in polite society, but usually not to their face, see point 1 again. 10. If they are in the mood for a fist fight, they could beat up some guys, and are careful who they challenge. 11. They usually win. See point 10. 12. They are tough. That's cool as long as they don't drag you into things that you have to help them finish. In other words, your absolute best friend when you were 17 and sure you knew everything there was to know already.

I'll make the observation that this situation didn't make Constance "inaccessible", just harder to access. No more comparing times up, ala Mt. Si, at least until the new "standard route" gets wired. In the meantime the adventure factor goes up, with no guaranteed success and a certain potential (maybe a strong one in my case) for an extra night out. Not a bad thing, brought to us at no extra cost by Mother Nature.

I have exactly the same symptoms, but not from climbing in the cold, but rather from biking. Courtenay agrees with the assessment of my doc, which is a pinched nerve. I have suffered serious iliotibial band inflammation in the past and stretching is definitely important. However, nothing has made the slight numbness disappear over the last five years. I just get used to it. Also, I have a suspicion that a contributory cause is a slight biomechanical (for lack of a better word) fault in my pelvis. I notice that my left "sit bone" is slightly forward of the right when on the bike saddle. I only notice at over 200km in the saddle. No help, just sympathy.

Sorry. I got distracted by Dwayner's translation of the Yatta video.

Dwayner, Looks like it is time to scam another sabbatical in aloha land. Trust me, if I could I would.

pope, It makes me nervous when you mellow out like this. One retort to your co-workers that comes to mind is whether they think it's okay that she takes risks commuting back and forth to work to feed her children physically, but somehow not okay to take some risk to feed them spiritually by showing a model of pursuing one's goals. Good post for counteracting a crappy day at work. ps. Thanks for the posts on bolting. I'm always tempted to just say "ditto", but there's plenty out there taking care of it for me.

And I thought I traded cars frequently! Ilike watching the Subarus on Speedvision, especially when they have been rolled three times and after the shock wears off the driver jumps out and kicks the beast 'cause it won't start right back up. I can easily visualize Trask in a car like that with the big ass fog lights blazing in the daylight. ps. Watch out for the 100K half life on the Subaru's. They don't totally quit, but important components begin to decay with more frequency than other Japanese iron. Sort of like the Chevys and Fords I have owned. Failed radiators, transmission seals, power steering components, transmission lines, etc., etc. No DOA's, but a big pain in the ass that I haven't suffered with Honda's, Toyota's or any German or Swedish hardware. Yep, owned some of each. That's what happens when you live with a houseful of teenagers.

Seems to me that the real dilemma isn’t marriage and climbing, but the logistical dilemmas of climbing itself that are frustrating. Climbing is as addictive as a drug to some folks. That starts the spiral. It also seems to me that you need four basic supports to a climbing habit, time, money, partners, and weather. Each of these supports is either only marginally under your direct control, or not controllable at all. The real lament I sense here is that Heinie has expended some energy in developing a flexible partner, and now that partner is on to other things and Heinie is left with a more difficult time fulfilling his addiction. Reading between the lines on this site, you can see several approaches to this problem. You can take the Cavey (or Beckey, for that matter) approach, which is to expand your list of partners to where you are never without someone to get out with. Coincidentally, he himself probably is super flexible about who he climbs with and what the trip is, just so he can get out more (only a guess). You can take the Pope/Dwayner/etc. approach and start doing stuff solo when necessary. The trade-off’s here are obvious. This only solves one of the support problems. You still need to work when your partner is off, or the weather is good, etc., etc. etc. Nobody knows the reasons Heinie’s partner really stopped climbing (except the partner, of course, and he may not really know either). My feeling is that like any addiction, it just wasn’t as strong for the partner as it is for Heinie. Real addicts will ignore a spouse trying to break his/her habit, and eventually just replace the spouse. The lucky ones have a spouse who understands the addiction, or shares it. Everybody’s story is different. I quit climbing a long, long time ago because the logistics hassles just started to outweigh the compensations. Weather, time, and partners go too hard to align, especially when the bike is sitting right in the garage, waiting to be ridden. No partners required, or long, boring drives. Weather can be dealt with by using raingear or simply waiting for a lull. You don’t get to your favorite road and have to wait for some other rider to finish before you can pass through. That said, I still think climbing is one of the best things there is to do. I don’t think it is the only thing there is to do anymore, though.

Ah, this one's come up before hereabouts. Retailers have to sell stuff that people want at a price they are willing to pay, which is a black art. Mostly, folks don't really want rock shoes, ropes, and high end bicycles, for instance. On the other hand, they don't mind looking like they might own them, and they have to wear clothes anyway, so they go for the clothes with the labels frequently seen on those intrepid Everest climbers in the magazines. I think the mountain retailing business is going to be primarily web-based in the near future. Check out Barrabes, who markets the best gear for the niche to users around the world. The little locals will do well with very specific customer service and a highly tuned sense of what's going to be "in" next. Nobody will be making a fortune, though. I hope we can always find some climbing bargains at REI, but I have a suspicion they'll really only be there for nostalgia. I don't think its really their business anymore, it's just in the DNA.

Shoot, didn't work. It must be a symbol for getting screwed. Last try. If this one doesn't do the trick, it's up to someone else.

Not having a life allows me to attempt to get the beginning of the coveted thirteen page. I can't tell if the icon is a light bulb or a symbol for getting screwed.

I think, uh... I think, uh... Well, when you, uh... Oh, never mind.

Inside or outside the hut? Isn't this the great smokeout weekend? Maybe you should take brownies and solve the whole smoking dilemma.

Dru, Like, you know, this isn't the Haiku thread. And, like, aren't they supposed to be original and stuff, and have more, like, syllables?

We need a topic that includes bolting, ganja, and sex. Only then can we hope to surpass the existing posting record. So, where is the cranky climber who has been smokin' up in preparation to bolt a northwest classic, only to be rudely interrupted by excessively raucous sex talk emanating from behind a nearby boulder? Surely Pope or Dwayner has some similar experience to share which could start off the thread.

Nothing to add, just want to extend the thread in hopes of some kind of record. We must be bored.

Watch who you're calling pre-adolescent!

I think the point that SC misses is that there is a segment of the human race that will kill you because of who you are. We in the West think there must be a reason that these Islamic militants are so mad at us. It’s something we did, and if we simply stop it, once we figure it out, then all will be well. We support governments they don’t like, let’s stop that. We live under a system of laws they don’t like, lets stop that. We use oil and buy it from them, let’s stop that. An admirable friend of mine spends much of his time traveling the world on missions of mercy for children in need of expensive medical attention. He has traveled to places like Chechen to pick up a child to bring to the US for surgery. Once during his travels he became acquainted with a US family of Croatian heritage. They told him a story that has the makings of parable. They had gone back to visit their relatives in the old country before the strife that began with Milosevic and his ethnic cleansing. During their visit they met the neighbors of their relatives and were treated cordially. The neighbors were to be on opposing sides of the ethnic strife to come. Some time after their visit they received a letter from their relatives’ neighbors. In it was a picture of their relatives, dead and displayed on the fence-line of their former home. The only other message in the envelope was “Don’t come back, there is nothing for you here”. How do civilized nations deal with that? What reasoned, logical and caring response is there to that? “I feel your pain”? “I can understand how you must feel”? “Well, you must have had your reasons”? “Let’s talk about it”? Milosevic, one of the ultimate authors of such tragedies, is now on trial. He is only on trial because he is forced to be, and still he doesn’t recognize the authority of the court. If he had the force of any nation behind him that would harbor him, he would not be in that courtroom. So it is with bin Laden and the Taliban. We cannot bring the force of law to bin Laden without first removing the government that harbors him. I won’t argue that the struggle is over with the elimination of bin Laden and his terrorist organization. The horrible probability is that conflict will continue between the West and the East. At least it will continue until the lines between East and West are so blurred by economics and communications that “we versus they” becomes “us versus us”. Islamic fundamentalists want no part of that. The dilemma of the spoiled/confused teenager is brought to my mind. Without the Great Satan (or your parents) to blame for all your problems, where then must you turn? The beauty of the teen years is that one grows out of them, but what happens when it is an adult behaving that way? So. Count me on the side of those who say there is no other rational course to answer the events of September 11 than the course we are taking now.

Seems to me that there are several ways to look at Terray's observation. If other climber's were trying to build there reputation, was that what Terray and Lachenal had in mind as well? If so, then the second ascent of the Eiger (and the first French ascent) might well serve much better than some "obscure riblet". What about the 30,000th ascent, though? Looked at another way, that ugly girl might take on more attraction if you had to take a number and wait in line to taxi dance with the beautiful one.

I don't know why people want to slam Dru when he provides so much useful information. Here I thought a Mormon Nailer was a guy from Utah with multiple wives and Dru points out its an LDS aid climber. What a dummy I am.

I think Krakauer is a journalist. Not a bad one. I am unhappy with the business of journalism, so he gets tainted. Maybe I'm unhappy with climbing journalism because it says something about me that I don't like. Maybe I am simply craving sensation and the next greatest toy. Maybe the game is no different than golf, with all its slick magazines and hardware. Now that I am good and mad at myself, I'll take it out on Krakauer, who's just making a living, like Lacitis at the Times. Jon is part of the big marketing engine we fuel. It's good that he is making better money writing than he did building houses, and I am sure that in person he's a decent guy. I would guess he is not the same good guy he was before his writing success, but probably still a good guy. His writing isn't anything special, but he's chosen subjects I'm somewhat interested in. I read it like I read newspapers, for information to be taken at less than face value.

No way will Krakauer post here, ever. He doesn't care whether Dru kisses up or not. Why give it away when you can get paid for it. With luck he'll slam the site in Outside magazine somewhere between the pictures of beauties in bikinis, the leather coats, and the liquor ads.

I have to admit this is the best thread ever. I purposely avoided it until today because I just couldn't plow through another 80 posts about bolting, its all been said. Now moondancing... that's another topic altogether! I envision tutus, but I could be wrong. Maybe we need a new thread, "I'm basically pro-Moondancing but..." Sexy needs to help us understand. This could be a nice tangent for gear manufacturers. Are tools required? Bent or straight shaft? Is Michael Flatley involved? What shirt material is required? Is there a rule about the number of buttons which must be open during any given move? Whoa, the mind boggles.