Dan_Petersen

Here's a mundane topic if ever there was one. Any good methods to get rid of mildew on the waterproof bottom of a bivy sack? The Goretex top is fine, but the bottom is spotted black. A regular wash got the smell, but the black spots remain behind. Any ideas?

Here's what bothered me about the bolting of DDD. Since the forties climbers have passed underneath the wall it is on by the hundreds. Bolts could have been placed there any time since the fifties and weren't. The route was climbed more than thirty years ago without bolts, and then free-climbed without bolts. Then, in the new millennium, along came a nice line of bolts right over Angel Crack, one of the set pieces of Northwest climbing. What better way to signal that Castle is now just another outdoor Vertical World, ready for a bolt grid? DDD isn't a classic (in my opinion). Routes with elegant, natural lines are classics, like Angel and Damnation. If I could have my wish, well enough would have been left alone, with two classic routes within ten feet of one another and no DDD at all. It's my view that the route was put up during the era when we still viewed Castle as just a practice rock for bigger things. To me this whole deal isn't about bolting, its about preservation ethics and esthetics. We don't tolerate graffiti, which is another form of ego gratification for the perpetrator, so we also don't tolerate indiscriminate bolting. Responsible citizens form work parties to clean up graffiti and have articles about their good works published in the newspaper. Nothing is different about the activity covered in this thread. Just as the graffiti artists have their supporters, so must bolters, but they are in the minority. Will Strickland's comments about formal regulation of bolting caused to me think about the implications of widespread bolting from a societal perspective, and not just as an individual climber. When a society finds some activity unacceptable, some form of control is put in place to protect us all, generally, from the potentially negative results of the activity. Bolts are another form of human-produced scars upon the landscape. They are only different from strip malls because they are much smaller. We Americans love to hate strip malls as much as we love to hate bolts. We hate them, but we use them. There's a place for both strip malls and bolts and the trick is in knowing that place. We all won't agree, ever (or only rarely). There are those that think there is no place inappropriate for a strip mall, and those people are called land "developers". Interestingly, those who are probably most responsible for proliferation of bolts are called route developers. In America, we have put formal social controls over land developers to protect the community, however that's defined. These social controls are law, enforced by elected or appointed officials, and influenced by all the other forces familiar in politics (special interest groups like the Access Fund come to mind). It sounds to me like rock walls are now starting to be viewed as a resource in need of societal protection, just like any other part of the public trust. Now comes the hard part. Assume that preservation of classic routes and their environs, as well as the remaining "classics to come" is the correct ethic. Who decides on the "classicness" of the route, or the level of protection for the surrounding rock? Who decides the correct course for preservation? Is it the locals, whoever they are? Is it a committee, the majority, those willing to post on the web, sport climbers, trad climbers, old climbers, young climbers, bureaucrats? I don't have answers, but I do have an opinion. I recently re-read a story about Steve Roper's visits to Dresden, Germany with Fritz Weissner. Awesomely hard rock climbing has been done there for almost a century. The ethic there allows for no protection other than bolts and runners, yet bolts are few and far between. The ethic demands that the bolts be placed on lead. These climbers seem to be as competitive as any in the world, and yet they are capable of phenomenal restraint in development of routes to test themselves against. The climbing society there regulates itself, and their klettergarten has remained intact after nearly a century of use, offering challenge to generations of climbers now and into the future. Maybe this is the model we should strive for.

Thank God for OLN, too. Now we get to see the real deal instead of CBS's attempts to "personalize" the sport for the masses. Watching the Alpe d'Huez climb last night I started to wonder what you can really call Armstrong. Superhuman doesn't cut it. The other guys on the Tour are superhuman, and look what he does in comparison to them. I miss Pantani this year, too. I believe that the French were seriously trying to fill the podiums with more of their national riders. It has still been a great spectacle this year, though.

Like the idiot with the hammer, I remind myself how good it will feel when I stop. I never thought I was "training" until someone at work called me a jock. Also, my personal rule is to never exert enough energy to sweat indoors (with one notable exception).

Trust Dru to crack the code. I thought Pencil Pusher sold pencils on a street corner somewhere.

I agree with removing the bolts on DDD. It saddens me to think of the defacing caused by the placing and the removing. On the subject of walk off descents. Way back in the olden days, rappelling was a necessary evil. No fancy rappel stations with shiny bolts and chains, usually just iffy placements or blocks to tie off. The objective was to have some gear left after you were done. I did Condor with my son. At the top we met up with two strong climbers who were rappelling down. We contemplated joining them, but my old dislike of rappelling overcame me and Alan and I walked off, although I am sure he would have preferred the rap. We were down and long gone before the two fellers rappelling even got to the ground. There were several parties ascending, and the resulting "opportunities for social interaction" (clusterf***) didn't look like much fun. They saw us at the packs and asked if we had run down (facetiously, I'm sure). Old geezers like me are runnin' downhill, but not like those guys meant. My list of "to-do's" includes Outer Space and Orbit, both of which I climbed thirty years ago, and not since. I hope the intervening years haven't been too hard on them. Sounds like I'm in for some disappointment. We climbers have a challenge to preserve a unique activity. Read Viktor Kramar's post here carefully. Let's not make climbing a technical variation on window washing or bungee jumping. The idea is to be sensitive to your surroundings and move gracefully, safely, and softly within them. If you aren't doing that, I don't know what you are doing, but what you are doing isn't climbing, at least in my definition. Enough ranting, I'm getting depressed.

No, Sean Connery is really Helmy Beckey. He had to change his name to get more women, as most of the good ones had had experience with Fred and were leery of the name. I think it has worked well for him, don't you?

"Endurance". Sail to Antarctic, sink vessel. Keep three malemutes, lifeboat, wool jacket, compass, and knife. Drag boat until you can sail, then use compass to dead reckon a course on the southern ocean to hit the equivalent of Mercer Island. Land on wrong side of island, mountaineer your way to the other side without equipment. Beg for help for the rest of your crew, sail back to pick them all up and go home. Try again following year. "I would have done better, but I wasn't born yet. Done in adequate style, even though it wasn't me." Goran Kropp, World's Greatest Adventurer "First Ascent of McKinley". Belmore Brown. Got there first, did not, did too, did not, did too.. etc. Hey, what's that big old lodgepole doin' on the south summit? Must be them damn mushers at it again. "I would have got there first, too, except I wasn't born yet." Fred Beckey, 007's Older Brother

My admittedly dated experience with Mountaineers is similar to my experience with dogs. They're at their best one on one when they aren't in "their" territory, and at their worst in packs. As with dogs, its sometimes hard to determine what a given Mountaineer defines as his/her territory.

I live in Kirkland, Washington, just outside Seattle. I work the normal Monday thru Friday, but can occasionally play hooky. I am familiar with Leavenworth and Index stuff, but haven't a clue about other areas like Darrington, Mt. Si, Exit 38, etc., etc. I have some gear, and can acquire more as time goes on. I have the basic safety skills and good familiarity with passive protection (no experience with cam's and such, as yet). Basically, I have started bouldering (but am a little intimidated to go to a gym) and have done a little practicing at Marymoor, both leading and belaying. I have fond memories of climbs like Canary and Outer Space, both of which I have done several times, but not since about 1980. Family and work got priority, a familiar story. Aerobically, I am pretty fit, my main activity for the last fifteen years has been distance cycling. A pound up and down Mt. Si still pounds my quads for a few days (as it did this week, since I went up Sunday afternoon with some friends). So, a bio instead of a short answer. It's more fun than watching TV.

A long time ago, I was a rock climber, like 25 years ago. Now I want to try again, at about the level that rock climbing was way back then (say 5.9 is the outside limit, unless I get way stronger or braver). Anybody out there who wants to do low key stuff with a semi-geezer? You can contact me direct at dpetersen@edge2net.net