Cpt.Caveman

Trask, you don't even climb. Tell me what you know about climbing. You must write one full page on anything even remotely related to mountaineering.....and you mustn't double space. I dont know about double spacing but you might end up being amazed what such a critter knows about climbing.

Careful there. Diversity of opinion is not a goal of the board of control on this site. You're asking to get yourself in trouble with the thought police.

The "permit" season lasts until Oct 15 according to website info. http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/wenatchee/district/leav/enchantment-permit-app.pdf

I think they edit them names with stuff like **##**

Interesting reading about the naming of Mox Peaks. I have an old Mountaineer 1945 that contains one of Beckey's first guidebook ideas in it including the area around the border\CHilliwack to Bear mountain. I will take a look tonight and see what he refers to it as in there. He definitely referred to many peaks by other names than what we know them by today.

My thoughts along the same line. removing the police and fees from recreation that is the only concern. i am out there to enjoy myself not be bothered by someone who could not become a real poice officer. I agree. less government involvement. this is a private activity, not one for the government to install ideals and rules into. That's jut too simple an assumption. But I agree that we already have many regulations that are arguably full of shit. Some people need the rules and by that some others will undoubtedly suffer. guides and adventure travel companies do not count they are abusing the land for personal/financial gain. Financial yes. But dont we all climb for what most would call personal gain in one way or another?

Generally the first ascentionists of the area, which usually is a group of locals (but not always). Ethics change, too. But it is narrow-minded to think that you should make no effort to find out what pre-existing ethics are in place before plugging in a bolt. That's just lazy. The climbing community is small enough that someone will know someone else who climbs locally. Knock on some doors. Some "climbing communities"\locals are divided on ethics and these sort of issues. They don't even talk to each other and shit.

There is generally contact information in the guidebooks, and usually local climbing shops have information as well. Generally - Not in some books I have seen. Besides who makes the call? Do they want every joe in the world to contact them about ethics bolting and cleaning? Will the "locals" ever respond? If I contact an author is he the only local? What about others? I read about locals and groups like in Leavenworth. There are groups all right. But some of them widely divided.

I can see Erik's response as not smart as but actually valid. I read about ask the locals about putting in new routes, bolts etc in many guidebooks. Well where the heck are they? Guarding the cliffs or what? I never seem to see them when I go climbing. In that case I am now local to everwhere.

I used a zero cam this weekend. Just for kicks hehe. But what if it was sandstone crumbly like peshastin or something? Is a zero cam much of a realistic option there?

I posted something to that effect yesterday. And it does work in some situations but not all. I'm with you. But also note some of the drillers do read here. Whether or not they care is another matter. But they might get an idea where some people find it more acceptable than others and it may sway a decision now and then. Whatever.

The number or bolted cracks is not high when comparing with the number of unbolted. But to see one stands out quite a bit from the rest in some people's eyes. Just a quick thought.

Chestbeating Skiing Drinking

Not really. I give the gimme a beer option

Erik those may be adventure climbs but they are totally valid. If someone doesn't want to acknowledge the routes well whatever. A lot of times too when climbing on larger formations where there are no or one other route it can be hard to draw a topo from memory and get enough information about where other people might want to start the route and go. A photo with lines drawn might help. As far as not cleaning and leaving anchors I think it is possibly the best style to do a route but that is obviously an opinoin. If guidebook authors don't want to include the routes that's up to them. But a little mention of adventure routes is like dangling carrots. I think all authors should dangle some carrots around. Have fun and keep it up.

I want my larry the tool hat.

Where's retrosaurus to fill in the missing link

Believe it or not I think there are people that might check other options.

I am gathering a statistic. I am betting most people will vote on the I clip all the bolts what's the big fucking deal idiots option.

Discuss

Hey I guess you proved my point!

Exactly what I am saying above.

RuMR some people deserve comments like those. It might help them think about their actions a little more. It's a harsh world. I am just flipping the coins around looking at things is all. There are even people that need an ass kicking too. But that's not what I am implying here. Climbing is very often an ego driven sport. I have seen dcramer and mattp sometimes make comments here and there elevating themselves or whatever you want to call it. Some might call it elitism but I think it lands on both sides of the fence. The ego thing that that utah dude talks about in the other thread. I believe Flamewars, bolt chopping do in fact help things out sometimes. It's a world of insanity.

Yes. Inner debate within the person reading.

It's great to see Harry Pi is still at work.