Peter_Puget

One fallacy in Dwayner's critique and it may be simply the result of never climbing very hard routes is as follows: He derides hang dogging on a specific route, yet in the easy grades where Dwayner admittedly resides he ignores the fact that the moves are for the most part less unique than at the higher grades. For example by climbing one layback at a lower grade you are basically training for many others. So a fall here or a hang thereon many different routes is in essence the same as hangdoging on a single very hard route. Admittedly this hangdoging by another name is much less efficient and effective than modern sport hangdoging but truly it is still hangdoging as well. As a proud American pragmatist I am ashamed we didn't lead the way on this. PP

Thanks Sexy! Hang around for awhile.

Dan check out NWOG.org. Scotty made it to the summit!

You're right but if you had more experience placing pro you'd find that 5.10a/b isn't too far off. PP By the way Sexy start posting more. We need an anitdote to the broken record that is being played here now. [ 08-20-2002, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

Godzilla - Bow before the 10th/11th? pitch of the Regular Route on Half Dome (Not to mention the short pitch after the Thank God Ledge Traverse!) Damn! Now that Ithink of it those idiots on the FA placed bolts on that route too! Should have waited for real men such as Higbee and Erikson before they bolted that route! PP

With the caveat that I have not seen the Z2 and Z1 sizes I would think that they do not replace ball nuts.

Dwayney - I have to completely disagree with your advice to Erik. Ignoring your value-laden term "rock police" I say that it is our obligation to let someone know it is a bad thing if they nail a clean route. Any experiences you have had with idiots are simply not pertinent to this issue. To watch someone nail Iron Horse and not say anything simply is BS. After all the hyperbolic grousing related to ethics on this site, I am surprised you would suggest silence in a face to face encounter. I am not advocating rudeness just a clear statement of fact As far as 10% you bring this route up every few months, I'd say a better example is the bolted line on Snow White. Especially since bolts have been added to sections already lead free w/o bolts. But since you mention it, please describe the nature of the clean pro on each section of #10 as bolted and the original route. Erik - I say if you see someone with a hammer, pins on their rack, or even using a hammer to clean a "loose rock" or piece of pro. Let them know it's clean. The worse thing they can do is to tell you where to go.

quote: Originally posted by Dru: Aliens vs. Zero Cams flexibility - Zerocam slightly higher flexibility as it flexes all the way to the head. width (side to side) same size Zerocam slightly narrower safety - Zerocam has cam stop cost - ZeroCam is cheaper at MEC. strength - same size ZeroCam lists out slightly higher. Thats ZeroCam over Alien 5-0.......... Of course, MEC got their first shipment in - FOUR WHOLE ZEROCAMS FOR THE VANCOUVER STORE!!! And they sold 2 of them by Sunday. This morning while fondling a zero I was struck by how weak the cam stops were. I wonder if they will deform easily and prove to be a pain. [ 08-20-2002, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

Z5 is the closest approximation to the blue TCU(assuming blue TCU is #1) But honestly the published size ranges seems a bit bogus to be when I am looking at different cams side by side.

Just opened that Zero Friend from Shoreline (size Z3) and here is my intial impression. I bought the Z3 because it is approximately the same size as the 00 Metolius TCU. (00 TCU is in my right hand; Z3 in the left as I juggle and type) Z3 appears lighter and smaller. The Z3 is so much smaller - I am talking cam width while retracted -that I do not belive that both published ranges can be accurate - somebody is fibbing. Not having the soldered axle ends appears to give the Z3 much more flexibilty in placement. Often I seem to find that the axle end screwed up placements with 00 and 0 size TCUs. Zero Friend much more flexible than TCU esp up near the cams. Z3 is virtually the same width as the 00. Trigger bar is plastic. Z3 is about 3/4 inch longer than 00 TCU. Published strength - 00 TCU: 4.0 KN, Z3:6.0KN. Now I need to go field test this little guy. PP

Please give me Weekend Warrior! Here's your beer: Heck I evern gave you two!

quote: Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: In my opinion the "falling is okay" or "fall on pro to learn to trust it" approach that several posters condon is sheer folly. (Sport exepted) I have taken over 20 trad falls, one grounder when a piece popped and I broke an ankle once when a piece held. Falling is NOT okay. Learn to NOT fall! The gear is a back-up. You, your focus, and your experience should be the primary part of climbing safely. Why do you think most fatal accidents happen on rappel...because gear fails, ussually because of human errors or improper use, but it fails. That is the one thing that you can count on. It is a fact of climbing that must be excepted. So, Shakey, here is my suggestion. It has worked for me. Free solo. Yes, you read it right and it might sound crazy. But if you do it right, take baby steps, climb known rock way way under your ability, solid and short at first, you will learn focus and confidence and you should develope the skill of mental calmness. When I now lead and place a solid piece I get this rush of "wow that is so cool..Protection; what a concept". I read this post and thought don't say anything but then I had to respond. TGis right at the top and I believe iresponsible at the bottom. Take this quote:"...because gear fails, ussually because of human errors or improper use, but it fails." Simply it is absurd. Imagine you are in a car heading toward a wall and stepped on the gas not the brakes. TG would call it gear failure! Enough on this. To encourage some unknown person that they solo to get rid of anxiety fear while climbing is just plain reckless. I can't tell you how to not be fearful maybe it is a good thing you are,maybe it is just a short lived phase. I once on a several week climbing trip I went from climbing 5.10 trad fairly consistantly to backing off a well protected 5.7 because I was scared. My partners thought I was going crazy and where somewhat irritated I was wasting their time backing off route after route. Fortunately for the rest of our trip they had fun leading and I had fun following. After awhile I was back to leading and eventually lead harder and more difficult to protect climbs than I had ever climbed before. I say relax and climb and try not to force the issue. PP

I should have known better. Touche!

I am soo outta now that I'd be killed or at least beg you to kill me to put me out of my misery. Dru - I can enter the three legged race by myself.

You have the direction right: Stevens to Sno. Besides having the best elevation profile, if someone is hurt or you get sick of the whol ething youcan easily escape down by Salmon Le Sac. A further note is that the terrain is best visually the more south you are so that you get pysched in the am. That final hill after waptus(?) lake is a bit of a killer tho. I'd recomend leaving at early evening from Stevens and then crusing fast, then slowing during the night and then speed up the next am. My view is nothing sucks more than to say "Oh I've been there but it was dark!" I just wanted the 24hr time and wasn't concerned with really going fast.

I have always received great service from these guys. Made an online order today at 1:58 Recieved confirm (and tracking number) from USPS at 4:58. My zeros will arrive Monday! Prices aren't the best but ok selection and great customer service. www.shorelinemtn.com

Hey Crack were you on Lamplighter last Sunday?

It is not too late. Go outside get on your bike and pump some concrete and pebbles down at the UW Rock.

I can't believe old Winthrop Means beat out the Towns Walls. Please seek help immediately.

quote: Originally posted by Attitude: quote:Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: "...the only thing that gathers [hand gesture] my interest and holds [hand gesture] it is bouldery, powerful moves ..." - Todd Skinner Let's compare. How many great mountaineering books or stories have you read? How many great bouldering books or stories have you read? There are significantly more mountaineering books because frankly the mundane experiences of the mountains are more easily rendered to script while the much more rarified joys of bouldering are far harder to reduce to prose. If it could be done they'd be scripture.

Heard on the news that the Tieton was buring. Hope they get it under control soon. Sounds like it might be near climbing. Associated Press TIETON, Wash. – The fire burning near Tieton, in eastern Washington, has grown to 1,600 acres. The fire started Wednesday in dry grass on the Oak Creek elk-feeding wildlife area and jumped Highway 12 and the Tieton River. Dispatcher Tami Jordon at the fire information center in East Wenatchee says planes dropped water and retardant overnight to protect homes. She says homes could be threatened Thursday if winds fan the flames. So far no structures have burned, no evacuations have been ordered and no injuries have been reported. [ 08-15-2002, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

Oh yea my favorite sandbag: Gutbuster 5.12b in Leavenworth. Anyone actually do that guy? I can't rate it because I can't get up it! Why don't people give their "correct" rating for the sandbags. [ 08-15-2002, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

Did you ever do it when the block was there? It was quite a bit easier than it is now. It doesn't seem much harder than 5.9 now to me but there is much more of an intimidation factor. I don't know if I'd agree that PA is easier moves than Sagg but I'd agree it is more indimidating to lead. Think about leading both those climbs before cams!

Good way to view it Ryland. A "speed" climbing team passes a my partner on the the E Buttress of Middle Cathedral and in their haste pulls off a rock killing my partner. What's their responsibility to the dead climber. Morally? Legally? I am climbing the same route and a team above tired and speeding because they misjudged the route length pulls a rock off and kills my partner. Same route middle of the day and a rock is pulled off by me and my partner dies. By the way I believe that a legal battle did ensue over rockfall on this very route.

In that case go for the WC Friends sizes #5 & #6. In the larger sizes they are much more stable than those goofy Camalots.