mattp

What I find telling is the fact that nobody has ever made a compelling case for Gitmo in the first place. They told us they had to lock up some bad guys, but never said who they were or how they identified them as bad guys. Then they told us they had to apply a little pressure on these bad guys in order to extract information to protect America but denied doing what everybody in the world knew they were doing (torture) and never told us about much of any actual beneficial information gained and we are not even seeing any real discussion of whether the whole thing has ever been worth it. Now they simply say they want to close Gitmo but don't know how to do it and they present disturbing things like the link above. I'm sure there are some good reasons for at least some of the decisions along the way and maybe we have gained some valuable information at some point or maybe some of the detainees, if they had not been detained, would have committed acts of terrorism several years ago. But the only way you can believe that we actually benefit from Gitmo is if you take all of our government's propaganda on faith and completely ignore the arguments of those like Tvash and Off White. Can you, Serenity, make a real argument FOR Gitmo or similar programs and facilities? Can you really do more than just to say that OffWhite and Tvash are worrying too much about the downsides of Gitmo and not fearful enough of what happens without?

I have had two pairs of them and I believe the first pair DID stretch lenghtwise a little bit but mostly they just became sloppy, which is probably largely laeral. I bought the second pair painfully tight, with my toes curled up, and I never was able to wear them comfortably though due to foot problems my street shoe size is now a size and a half bigger and I'm buying rock shoes bigger as well.

So: Sarge. Did you do it? I bet it was cold out there in Saturday.

I'd be pretty happy to have my friend's family end up with Yvonne Chouinard but I've known other unlicensed guides who in no way should have been taking clients anywhere near Mt. Rainier. If the park is policing things a little more than they have at times in the past that may be an OK turn of things.

Collin's right, Catbird. You live in a pretty sweet place and the weather there is lots better than here. But Pimp, Crillz, Collin and anyone else: let's go climbing at North Bend or Index after work!

Thanks, Collin. My initial response to my friend was that I couldn't believe there wouldn't be any guided climbs available in August and her brothers should try to confirm they were getting accurate and complete information. By the way: daylignt savings time means an after work (cut out a little early) trip to Exit 38 or Index might be a good idea. Lets get something going!

I just received a telephone call from an old friend who says her brothers have contacted "the guides" at Mt. Rainier and been told that they cannot hire a guide this coming summer because everything is booked. I don't know if they have contacted all the licensed guides or if they may only have contacted RMI but can this really be true? Second of all: if is IS true that none of the official concessionaires are available, who as an unlicensed guide might be able to take some healthy and fit climbers from New Jersey up Mt. Rainier? I'm all for regulations and government oversite but if the licensed operators cannot accommodate someone who inquires 5 months in advance I'm skeptical as to whether the certification or concession procedure is adequate. Under these circumstances, I wouldn't be adverse to relaying contact information regarding someone who may not be "official."

Bug offers good advice here. Also, to my above-commentary I should add that I assume that when you say you are ready to try your first trad lead you actually do know how to place pro and have done enough climbing that you will be able to get yourself out of a jam should find yourself in one. This might come from structured training or simply from experience. If you are comfortable on vertical rock and have followed a lot of trad pitches and cleaned the gear (pick a random number - 50 maybe?) and if you have been there to observe what they did when a leader got scared and needed to back down or when they z-clipped or whatever, I'd bet you are sufficiently prepared. Take it slow and climb with the supervision of someone who could rescue you if need be and you'll be OK.

For me, the point is generally not to convince anyone of anything. I participate in these discussions mostly for recreation but also because I actually find it compelling to read how some knucklehead who I completely disagree with views the world. It is interesting and occasionally educational.

Have a nice day, Tvash!

You are really screwing up here, Tvash. Us lefties are supposed to stick together and stay on point. Lets get back to bashing the "other guys" now.

I agree with your litter box analysis, JMO, but what I have come to understand around here is that many people think rhetorical insult and baiting are demonstrations of spirit and intellect or otherwise part of what makes the discussion compelling. Sometimes I agree, but when it turns to a steady diet of the stuff even the best caviar gets pretty nasty. As to the Democrats and even the White House fighting back against Rush Limbaugh? I get what you are saying about how there is something unseemly when a President can use his pulpit to attack a critic but I think this is vastly outweighed by the simple justice of the matter when you have someone like Limbaugh, a blowhard liar who has been a major player in American politics for 20 years and who fired the first shot in this conflict. I agree with those who say: let him have it.

You've tried that before, Tvash. The fact is, I have directly stated my opinions about your posting practices - both in public and private threads - and you have responded with anger and insult every time. In this particular instance, you apparently assume I was referring to you and felt the need to engage once again but there was nothing "passive aggressive" about my responding to JMO's post and I have every right to state my opinion without you having to start the name calling. After the first several times I tried to suggest you would make yourself look better and do the rest of us a favor if you were a tad less bombastic around here I have given up on the matter. You can carry on but don't try to bully me into avoiding all comment that might offend you.

It'd be interesting to keep score for a month you see if this is true. It used to be that almost all of the truly vile insults and bullying came from the conservatives around here but that has changed. In the public media, however, I think a scorekeeper would certainly conclude that the mudslinging comes mainly from the right but then again I don't react the same way when someone attacks, say, Palin as opposed to Kerry, so maybe I just don't notice all of it.

Zig Zag at Mt. Erie is pretty good. It sports easy climbing, perfect and easy to place pro where you need it (there is maybe 25 feet of easy climbing on the 2nd pitch that is not well protected but about maybe 5.4 at most) and bolted belays. However, it is a genuine multipitch route that you will NOT be able to toprope and toward the end of the first pitch you have to make a move where you will hit a ledge if you fall but it turns out to be surprisingly easy (in my book, the makings of a PERFECT first lead because you will succeed but it contains a little excitement that will allow you to actually feel successful). Climb the second pitch as what I think Dallas Kloke calls "Overexposure," though. This is a classic route! Disclaimer: I think Midway is a fantastic climb and very easy to manage as well - if you climb it the "right" way see my topo and take the middle option. By modern standards and with the holds on the first pitch in particular being polished, Midway is harder than rated. I think it is probably 5.6 or 5.7 but I think it is rated 5.5 in the books; maybe this is why it is said above to be a bad choice. It is, however, an exciting climb and very well-protected and I think it would be a fine choice. Admittedly, you should take my advice with a grain of salt because I don't understand the idea of top-roping your first lead. I'm not trying to be snide or condescending; I'm serious. If you believe you are ready to lead something, just do it. Leading is much more about "leading" than it is about any mechanics of learning to pull the rope up and clip into pro. Ask around and pick a climb that your more experienced friends tell you is well-protected and you will do fine. We read a very poignant essay on this website about somebody scaring themself on their first lead maybe 5 or 6 years ago, and I once helped rescue someone who fell a LONG way on their first lead, but really: it is not something you need to "set up" and "manage" to the point of making "leading" simply a mechanical exercise with a top rope and I think the modern approach to the whole enterprise is just plain wrong. Ask around and pick a climb that is, as you say, "not strenuous" and has "sraightforward gear placements" and go for it.

It sounds as if those people at the White House are doing their job.

As opposed to having his wife's identity as a secret agent exposed?

If you have a larger party, some members can drive up that road - Nusatsem or whatever it is - and the Bella Coola heli pilot can make a second or third shuttle flight to and from that point which is half the distance from his base. This may allow you to come up with an affordable plan.

I have not seen anywhere other than here on cc.com or in some private e-mails that the City intends to shut down climbing on Mt. Erie. What I know is that they recently revised their closure area photo to allow climbing on the classic route "Zig Zag" after I sent them an E-Mail asking whether they had intended to close that route. The photo posted above has been revised slightly, but I don't have a jpg copy of the revision. I also have received e-mails from John Lundsford indicating that a broad closure of climbing on the south slope of Mt. Erie is not at all in the works. Has anyone here got a serious handle on what may be intended? (I'm not dismissing those who have posted previously but am asking for more information).

I met Collin at Magnuson Park tonight and I'm looking forward to seeing him down there again. I'll see you there, Collin, right? Maybe next time we can climb one of the big towers! Magnuson Park is great but we turn the clocks back next week and daylight is getting longer so I bet we can resume past groups for North Bend or Index after work in the Spring -- I'm coming off almost an entire year of sitting on the couch and I need some regular rock time and (for me) the gym just doesn't hold much interest. I told Collin: let's take it to North Bend or Index! Collin is a go. Who else?

You can't really scope out real lines from there but Nason Ridge offers outstanding views of peaks from Glacier Peak to the Stuart Range. By mid-April I bet the trail up Rock Mountain is dry for the first 2000 feet and your dog can make it to the summit but up high it will probably feel like real mountains with steep snow and cornices and such.

I have used a bunch of different crampons with tele boots. Most work fine, though I didn't like the flexible crampons much. My ten year old Grivel Rambo's work well.

Wow. I generally don't participate in these "hats hung low" threads when I don't know the deceased, but I find this moving. Kevin, who as far as I know never posted here, is a big player on cc.com and had a lot of loyal friends. Thanks.

I think the N. Cascades offer more sense of "immersion" but I'm with you in that the OR Cascades are an under-recognized gem. The wild cinder cone area north of North Sister, for example: a very special place that NOBODY ever writes about. And those lava flows south of Mt. Washington are another gem. The McKenzie Pass road is amazing! The obsidian lava flow up on Newberry Crater, another AMAZING roadside attraction. The Oregon Cascades rock! I have not been up Jefferson but I'm sure it wouldn't disappoint!

The NE bowl below Washington is a really cool spot, eh? There's a cool satellite pinnacle on the ridge east of the summit pinnacle that I remember from years past, and in summer some very beautiful boulders in a nice meadow. Unfortunately, you can hear the highway from there but otherwise I remember it feeling very remote.