mattp

I did the full Index traverse in late summer many years ago and I thought it was great! It is extra-sub-alpine and the rock is generally poor to mediocre, so you might not like it if moss, brush and poorly protected loose rock are not your kind of thing -- but it's MOUNT INDEX! In my book, the N. Face is not a bad route, unless you are looking for something really good.

If you aren't looking for real high-performance but just want to have fun in the back-country, it is no big deal. You can sharpen your edges once in a while (detuning tips and tails as DP said) and maybe hit the bases with some wax and a warm iron, and you're good to go. I used to tune my skis regularly when I was sking in the donwnhill areas, but it really doesn't matter all that much for skiing the volcano's as you intend to do. More important, in my view, is to inspect your bindings and boots and poles once in a while to watch for signs of impending failure of a buckle or basket that will really hamper your fun in the sun.

It was nice to see some new faces, too. Justin, Josh and his partner whose name I forget, you two skier dudes (how was it up there on Sunday?)... And Jordan -- sending Fun Rock in bare feet!!

Saturday, 4/26: does this count?

Here's the view, Saturday April 26, from Mount Hardy during the Spring Ski-In. At the far left is Tower Mountain, a blur, then the panorama starts with Burgundy Spire, ESE, and continues aroung to the Granite Creek drainage, to the NW.

I heard they had record rainfall in Winthrop earlier this week but the weather cam looks pretty decent at Sun Mountain Lodge this morning,(cloudy with sunbreaks) and the Washingotn Pass telemetry station reports only trace amounts of new snow over the last few days, with freezing levels below pass level. It's looking pretty good for both skiing and climbing! I'm headed over tonight and may be looking for a carpooler...

There has been some discussion of having a barbeque club instead of a pubclub one of these weeks, and three parks have been mentioned: Golden Gardens, Woodland Park, and Magnuson Park. I checked out a picnic shelter at Magnuson Park last night, and it looked as if it might be appropriate for us. Here's my thinking: Golden Gardens, with the nice beach and views of the Olympics, is a fantastic place for a barbeque and bonfire. Last time we were there, everyone enjoyed it greatly until, about 10:00, the police came by and made us poor out our beer and then they started getting on the megaphones hollering that everybody had to leave the park. I had forecast that this would happen, because it ALWAYS happens in May and June. Because it is so nice and has that great parking lot and because they allow bonfires, the park is just too popular with High School aged partiers and the police are particularly active there in the Spring. Woodland Park has been the scene for some great climber's picnic's over the years. These have been held during daylight hours, at one of the picnic shelters along Aurora. I don't know, but isn't this a gay pickup spot at night? Magnuson Park is out of the way for many cc.com folks, but I think it is also out of the way for other users. It certainly looked pretty empty around that picnic shelter last night -- there was one car 200 yards away with a couple sitting inside. The picnic shelter has two barbeque grills, and the posted sign said "park closes at 11:30 pm." I think we should get together on a weeknight in a park rather than a pub some time. It is all wholesome and stuff to celebrate springtime in Seattle by getting together outside, and there would be no problem with it being an "all ages" event. I know that Norman Clyde has asked that we try a night other than Tuesday, so I'm wondering about a wednesday night? Thoughts?

Fleb, I agree with the idea that they should do their best to minimize their disruption of other climbers' weekend and to minimize any lasting impact by staying on trails and cleaning up after themselves. I doubt anybody in the organization will disagree with these ideas although they may not always be able to control what all their members do and, in part because a lot of their leaders are themselves relatively inexperienced climbers, they often do things that many of us can criticize. I think the main question in this thread is whether or not they have a right to organize a group of fifty, however, and I think that they do.

I don't see what the problem is with a Mountaineers' course in the Icicle. If they wanted to take a group of fifty camping up at some pristine tarn in the Enchantments, I'd be unhappy about it. But if they want to mob Barney's Rubble, I can't really see what's wrong with that. Yes, I'd be unhappy if that happened to be the day I wanted to climb at Barney's Rubble, but I think that all fifty of those people probably have a right to learn how to climb and that one group of fifty may in fact have less impact that five groups of ten. It's Barney's Rubble and Clamshell, for god sake. It is not some pristine wilderness and it is not as if somebody who finds them in the way cannot go somewhere else.

Lambone - down boy. I didn't say or imply that it was OK to nail clean routes in the rain. I have no comment on whether she should have done something else that day because I wasn't there and I have never climbed that route. I saw that you had put somebody down as "kinda lame" and all I said was that she was not the first, nor will she be the last to use pins on that route in those conditions. I think you are taking yourself a little too seriously, my man!

Geek- I agree that much of what you learn in a self-rescue clinic or first aid class is probably not going to get you out of a jam if your buddy falls off Edge of Space, smashing his head in the process, and ends up hanging in space about 500 feet off the deck. And I do not believe that a pulley or some combination of the right equipment is going to be sufficient for me to count on being able take care of things all by myself in a truly bad situation -- especially if an accident occurs when I may be tired, cold, or running out of light. However, the more you learn about complex rigging, equalizing anchors, and emergency first aid, etc., the more you are likely to be able to do something to at least stabilize the situation if you get into trouble.

I agree with ChucK that I try not to pile on the tie-in if there is another choice available because I seem to make a mess out of it if I move around very much while or after I've piled on the tie-in. I also find it can be difficult to collect carefully measured loops Lambone-style and neatly drape them over my tie-in and still manage to focus on the belay and keep the second on a tight and secure belay all the way through a pitch. In many alpine rock situations and on some crags, the angle is low enough and/or the rock broken enough that a very small ledge or a bit of a slab is sufficient to pile the rope near the belay as long as everyone tip-toes around it so as not to kick it off.

It is the BALLARD GRILL AND ALEHOUSE. There is no "Ballard Alehouse." Ballard Grill and Alehouse 4300 Leary Way NW It is on the north (east) side of Leary Way, directly accross from Hale's Ales (brewpub). Halfway between Ballard and Fremont; near the new Fred Meyer.

All day on Monday and Tuesday, it is all about who can whine the loudest about smoke, yuppies, or having to drive accross town, and then there is the occasional grudge match that lingers for weeks or even months when somebody doesn't get their way. But if you hang in their long enough to find out where it's going to be, you'll be welcome. And if you show up, you'll find that it is just a bunch of the regular's and not-so-regulars from cc.com, talking about where they've been climbing or who offered the most clever post in the past few days. Once the beers start to roll, its all peace and love and AlpineK stops bitching about the pachuli oil, Captain Caveman turns out to be your best friend, and Dwayner and V even show up to sign autographs. Sometimes we have show and tell, with somebody's pictures or the latest new gizmo or whatever, and of course there is the occasional gear swap. To identify each other, we all wear helmets with our names on the front of them.

Be careful with the crampons -- it won't take much of an error to end up with a broken leg or torn knee or something. Personally, I'll concentrate on not falling with crampons on and leave the practice for somebody else.

Klenke - Most parties approach this climb as a mountain climb where the goal is to get to the top, and not as a rock climb where it matters exactly which variation you take on any given ten foot stretch of the route. I think very few if any parties feel compelled to stay right on the crest of the north buttress. Does that mean they should call it the NW Face? Not, in my opinion, if they are generally following the N. Ridge rather than heading out to the middle o the face. I did it twenty or twenty five years ago, and I remember detouring a little bit, but I remember it as a ridge climb and not as a climb of the NW Face. Matt

I think they make great trips, but the beach hikes can get rather crowded in the summer. They're best before Memorial Day or after Labor Day, in my opinion, and if you don't like crowds you might also consider deliberately going when the weather is not perfect. It's no fun out there in a major gale, and in a real monsoon you might even get stuck between the creeks on the southern wilderness strip, but it can be just fine out there in a normal wet-weather cycle if it isn't too windy. If you are planning a backpacking trip elsewhere on the Olympic Penninsula and find the weather is not looking as good as you like, consider heading for the beach.

Way to go Michelle. You didn't have to come forward and admit your sin, yet you did. I'm not advocating nailing the "clean routes" at Index, but I think you have plenty of company in using pins on them when it is wet or snowing out.

After getting a rappel rope stuck while retreating in the rain a couple of years ago, I prussik'ed up a long steep pitch using only the runners from my rack. If you do like ChucK says, and carry real runners instead of those stupid stiffy dog-bone draws, you can fashion prussiks any time. To keep one on your foot, simply make a girth hitch and step into it, then leave one strand of the hitch below your foot and slip the other up around your ankle.

I' m not implying that you're implying your were a badass. I am merely stating fact. YOU ARE BADASS, Erik! My only point was that I agree with Wayne that folks who are used to clipping bolts every three feet are going to find a couple places where that is not the case on the M.I.R. I didn't comment on whether there were too many or too few bolts, or whetherit was the world's best climb or anything -- we should hold that debate at the cabin after 27 parties from cc.com mob the route on Saturday. Now go back to work.

We could go to Hales with the understanding that "after hours" we'll head accross the street, to the Ballard Grill and Alehouse. Everybody wins, no?

Erik, you are one badass mothofo!!! There are runouts of more than three feet in a couple of places!

Wayne is right. The "Methow Inspiration Route," although heavily bolted, has a few spots on it that will give many sport climbers a little pause.