mattp

Nothing wrong with learning to climb from a book - combined with trial and error, of course.

Fairweather: I was right about 3 out of 5 elements but I missed the central theme of his speech: I didn't expect him to dwell so much on how Iraq was linked to 911. Is that "closed minded," or "only partly correct?" By the way: I agree with you that I don't think we will be able to negotiate with those behind the suicide bombings. Just what DO you think about this Iraq war - I mean, "war on terror," anyway? (I mean, aside from the fact that all of us liberals suck.) Did you find his speech inspiring or reassuring?

cj - if there were anything with any substance or validity to it, don't you think we'd have seen some of it leaked by now?

Not that I'd like to be seen as defending Glasgow, Fairweather, but I think you are nobody to talk when it comes to "venomous foam." Rather than fling the poo, how 'bout you show us what a smart guy you are and tell us how he's wrong?

cj - Much of that "damning" intelligence was widely reported to be false at the time, though it got more "play" in foreign press than our own. The Uranium processing tubes, for example, were said by experts to be unusable for that purpose; this was public information. The day after Powell's speech, the press went to the site of the "training camp" on the Iran border and there was nothing there. This, too, was in the news. The yellow cake uranium, etc. etc. etc. Yes, much of this came out after the resolution PP refers to was adopted but I don't think there is much reason to believe the senators were shown any convincing intelligence -- they simply did the political calculation and concluded that it would cost them votes if they resisted and they could blame it on Bush if things later went as everybody knew they would. This doesn't make them responsible for Bush's war, though. Merely complicit.

You are right, they were pathetic not to stand up to that B.S. 'cause I'm pretty sure they, too, knew it was bunk.

I've been using the Stratos for ten years and I have been very happy with them. I now have a pair of 8.5 mm Sharp's. Yes, I believe they replaced the Stratos. They are good tough ropes and I like the stiffer than average handling -- they seem less prone to tangling around things than other ropes of similar thickness.

Yo Puget: What did YOU think of the speech?

I think I gotta check with Mr. Klenke about one of the top 100.

Fairweather: Originally, he told us we had to attack them before they attacked us, even though he was pretty sure they had few or no weapons because virtually all of his experts told him so and we had something like 400,000 soldiers camped out all around Iraq's borders. He said it would be "easy" to "liberate" Iraq because they'd welcome us as liberators, even though (once again) his generals told him it was not going to be all that easy and we wouldn't be wecomed as liberators. He also said that the oil revenues would pay for the whole thing, but of course this has not happened and the whole mess is the single biggest burden on the American economy that we've known in modern times. Lastly, he assured us that we'd be out of there in short order because, he said, we were not planning to occupy Iraq. Now he tell us that "I told you it wouldn't be easy" and he is trying to talk us into being ready to camp out for - what did Rumsfeld say - "5, 8, 10, 12" years??? Are you suggesting that a pep talk completely without substance is to be applauded? I suppose the answer would be "yes" if there were lots of people who were inspired by his speech, but I bet not all that many actually were. I guess we'll see.

He was supposed to tell us what the plan was. I didn't hear much in the way of a plan. Did you? (Is: "when they are ready to take over, we'll withdraw" a plan?)

More likely he's been arrested as a "noncombatant" and took an all expenses paid trip to Guantanamo Bay. They'll torture him by placing a computer montor in front of him, while he's hanging from a hand-tied harness ca. 1970, with with cc.com on display 24 hours a day, but no mouse or keyboard in reach. Then they'll flush a copy of the Beckey guidebook down the toilet as he is forced to eat nothing but extruded power bars from a Sierra Club cup.

The last three weeks or so there have been last minute attempts to organize something, and there was actually a fairly good turnout at the Snugtop-sponsored event but I'd propose we try to start talking about it before 3:00 pm on the day of.

Is anybody else looking forward to watching the President tonight? What's it going to be? Stay the course ... freedom is on the march ... the chickens who wage the insurgency are beginning to falter ... I never said it was going to be easy... we are more secure now ... and those who question our greatness hold us back?

Gary is right - it is really not bad. However, the truly clean part of the route is on the first 4 pitches or so and thereafter it deteriorates noticeably. There is a significant amount of the Washington Pass oatmeal rock, flared cracks, and some bushes on the upper part of the climb. Liberty Crack is cool because of where it is. The first four pitches are spectacular and the overall line is striking. If you want a wall climb that is steep and clean all the way - go to Squamish.

The day before yesterday, I encountered this fellow. There were some yearlings digging in and licking the dirt next to a boulder, but this guy made a beeline for us -- I feared he might get a little aggro or something (beg, maybe?).

That's probably a good idea. It would probably be completely denuded if they allowed camping there.

Damn, we should have all been wearing our name tags. Nice to meet you, too, Ned. You were in the party of two, climbing the Beckey Route I presume? I was there with my niece and nephew, for one of their first "real" rock climbs.

I don't think very many people take the Ingalls Creek trail because it is something like 12 miles in there from the trailhead by that route. More common is to take Long Pass or the Ingalls Lake trail from the Teanaway road, and if you want to climb both Ingalls and Stuart, the Ingalls Lake area would be your destination for camping.

True gentlemen, the guys shared their ropes with 4 other climbers on the rappel.

There is no running water at the scenic overlook right now -- June 27. The sign says "water turned off for the winter."

I took a banking law class in law school. The first three rules of the Uniform Commercial Code, as applied to banks are (1) the bank wins, (2) you lose, and (3) see rules one and two.

About this heel fit. I've found some shoes have too much of a heel cup for me, so they cut into the top of my heel in a painful way. Do they do this because people pop out of the heels sometimes? And do you really need a particular fit in the heel -- isn't comfort there the only reel consideration? --- And, by the way, just wear nothing but sandals for a several months, or simply get older -- both have increased my foot size substantially, though the sandal experiment yielded only temporary results.

OK then, back to the original question: Galileo v. Anasazi. The Galileo's are stiffer, and you said "stick with the A's- the G's are too stiff." I'm not sure how different the last is on these two shoes, but I think it is not all that different. Wouldn't I find that the Gallileo's would offer support helping edge a little better, while they'e probably be less suited to friction climbing? Are you suggesting that the G's being "too stiff" limits the range of their performance or do you think that stiffness is no help for edging?

I honestly respect your opinion, RuMR, and I believe you know a hell of a lot more about rock climbing shoes than I do -- that is why I am participating in this exchange -- but you asserted that Cash suffered operator error if he could tell one rubber from another, you argued with me over a point that I didn't even make, you preface your explanation of how the fit is vital for performance with "let me make this simple" ... I'm actually interested in your perception of what is proper fit, though. I've asked a couple of times already: is it in your opinion necessary for me to have shoes that hurt to get reasonable edging capability out of them -- assuming I want a shoe that is soft enough to smear well too?