mattp

Have you seen the other thread, Mr. Tuff? He's getting some advice there. He could be a troll, but I doubt it. Either way, I think it would be good for this board if people could ask questions - even dumb ones - without getting dogged on every time.

I'm not convinced that Mr. Up is either a troll or that he is asking stupid questions.

For me, stretching has often helped. I've also used ice and, when it really got bad, teh doctors have prescribed muscle relaxers. Good luck!

As to the N. Fork, perhaps the washout is beyond the Falls. I heard about it from a friend who is fairly reliable. However, it is possible that they fixed it. That is a fairly major road in the DTown district.

The road up the N. Fork Sauk (isn't that what it is?) toward the N. side of Sloan had a serious washout on it a few weeks ago, before the falls viewpoint trail. The Bedal Creek access road is gated for "wildlife closure."

Dalius, the climb actually went well and we made reasonable time, but had anything gone wrong we would have been in a world of hurt!!! (A pick fell out of my Hummingbird on the summit so we had only three tools between the two of us, but he couldn't have downclimbed anyway so I simply lowered him to the end of the rope, had him hammer in a picket, and then I downclimed six or eight times.) Anyway, somebody ought to contact the guy and maybe make some $ or an interesting contact in exchange for making a training hike.

Do not trim it down. Another pair of boots may require the longer strap. I don't know how your lacing system works, but do you have an "extra" wrap around the ankle - that is, does the lace go completely around your ankle in an unbroken loop somewhere in the system? This helps assure against loss if the crampon comes off your heel or something. Take any extra strap and tie it through your bootlaces or whatever you have to do to keep it out of the way.

The standard route on Mt. Cook involves a climb of about 5,000 vertical feet from the Plateau Hut, up a moderate angle'd glacier for 3,500 feet until you get some steeper snow slopes up to a couple ice or mixed pitches, and then perhaps 1,000 feet of moderately steep and very exposed snow/ice to the summit. The climb is comparable, perhaps, to Ptarmigan Ridge or something. The range is known for quick changes in the weather and, yes, they'll have to carry summit packs for sure. To get to the hut involves waking perhaps a mile or two on a huge and hugely broken valley glacier, climbing a steep and scary moraine wall, some rock scrambling, and a bit of glacier climbing -- this approach itself is WAY more of climb then, say, Mt. Shuksan or Eldorado Peak. Carrying packs will be the least of their worries, but these guys will want their clients to be in good shape and they are going to want to teach them a little about climbing before they make the trip. I guided a complete novice up that route (a "climbing partner" I recruited at the youth hostel) and determined, in hindsite, that I had no business doing so.

Dalius, most climbers on Mount Cook fly to the Plateau hut, and I can see why they do. The climb to that hut is pretty gnarly. These climber will NOT have to "carry their own weight" if they are doing the standard route.

The Edelweiss Stratos 9mm, which I believe the Sharp 8.5mm replaces, was a durable rope. I have a pair of Sharps, and one has gone flat after I used a reverso for rapelling and I have climbed on it for about six days or so. I'm not sure if this is a cause for worry or not, but the "weave" may have been loose or something, and it has a definite flat profile. These ropes have a slightly stiffer "hand" than do other ropes of similar dimension. I think this is an advantage as they are less prone to whipping around things when you toss them down the hill for a rappel or something.

Seneca Rock.

It wasn't quite that simple, Wazzu. There were certainly some in the Forest Service who DID have a problem with the bolts but the trail was at least as significant a concern and in a real way more so. Management plans do not allow for trailbuilding, but the rangers noted that trails are proliferating all over the place so that, for example, there is barely a lake anywhere that doesn't have a trail to it. The user built trail on nearby Mailbox Peak, too, was a big issue for them. In addition to the trail and the power tool issue, there was also the concern for the prospect that the climb might draw concentrated use by a new user group in a new area. Previously, that face had seen a handful of ascents in twenty years.

For those contemplating putting up new routes or crags, an equally important consideration, often overlooked, is trail building. Land mangers or property owners are often upset by the development of user-built trails.

Non-responsive!

Please lay the foundation.

That statement is nothing more than self-serving hearsay. Can we hear from someone who knows?

I don't keep track and I'm sure people have done so, but I have not heard of anybody doing it in a day. Not in the winter. Some friends of a friend bivouaced in the North Face bowl, to return from their summit climb to find their snowcave had avalanched away and taken all their camping equipment once.

I was cheering for you guys when I heard you were OK and completing the descent under your own power. Hearing about Bill's toes, I'm worried. I hope he recovers!

Well, it does have a cool name and every once in a while I hear it come on cc.com as the route to do if you want to die...

It could be that I have mis-identified where I thought we found the crux bit, because it sounds remarkably like what you described: the gully itself went through a bulge in a steep slot, and there was an easier route maybe 50 feet left, which is what we took. There was an apparent detour farther left, but we didn't check it out.

I hope nobody got the impression I was asking him or anybody else to "explain their route choice" as in defend or justify it. I thought it interesting that there might be a two pitch variation at that point - but it appears Dru's guess that those "climbers" in the route photo are quite likely just trees is correct. The higher pair, which as noted appears to be linked by a rope, is right in the gully.

I think the "overhype" phenomenon reflects more than simply a desire to impress others. Many climbers seem to feel underconfident to pick a good line without a guidebook author's endorsement or a string of enthusiastic trip reports on cc.com.