Teachers Strike

[ivan]

it appears a lock now that the legislature is going to give itself a 11% COLA - i appreciate they haven't had one since we stopped getting ours and i see no reason to call them money-grubbing whores - public service shouldn't require taking a vow of poverty - yet why the double-standard when it comes to teachers making the same case (and having the clear mandate of a voter initiative to boot?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ivan]

more than 50 locals have now taken this action - all together they teach 1/4 of the state's kids - even locals east of the mountains are joining in - this benign walk-out movement isn't out of steam yet, and it underscores a serious threat at summer's end if ignored

 

olympia called a special session recently and in 5 days gave boeing 9 billion, and they mostly left anyway - teachers aren't going anywhere, and we're half-way through the 30 day session now w/ no end in sight.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

You know the weather in the PNW fucking sucks today...

 

[ivan]

i thought the shitty weather worked in our favor - nobody's tempted to go fucking golfing instead and it made for a fine metaphor: state funding for education is similarly mercurial, but unlike the weather, we actually CAN do something about the legislature

[KaskadskyjKozak]

i thought the shitty weather worked in our favor - nobody's tempted to go fucking golfing instead and it made for a fine metaphor: state funding for education is similarly mercurial, but unlike the weather, we actually CAN do something about the legislature

 

Fuck you people just love to get your panties in a bind and talk shit at every opportunity about shit you have no control over.

 

OK, I do that with the weather sometimes LOL

[ivan]

seen a fair bit of humorous arguing over whether the "strike" word is apropos lately too - kinda like splitting hairs between "tussle" "skirmish" "battle" or "Armageddon" - comparing what i saw today to, say, the famous pullman strike is like comparing the first day of a little-league practice to game 7 of the world series

[Fairweather]

it appears a lock now that the legislature is going to give itself a 11% COLA - i appreciate they haven't had one since we stopped getting ours and i see no reason to call them money-grubbing whores - public service shouldn't require taking a vow of poverty - yet why the double-standard when it comes to teachers making the same case (and having the clear mandate of a voter initiative to boot?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

A clear voter mandate? Hardly. I1351 passed with 50.8% of the vote. Supporters (the teacher's union) spent $ 5million; opponents spent $ zero. What's more, this so-called mandate provided no funding. $ zero. Finally, the still-phantom House budget--with tax increases--does not fund I1351 either.

 

We don't need tax increases just to give teachers a raise or to fund a utopian ballot initiative that Seattle voters passed without funding ala monorail. And McCleary will be paid for with the additional $3Bn in growth revenue. Geeeez, is it even possible for Democrats to budget our money? And where were all these Democrats, say, during the last 30 years when they had complete control of Olympia? Where was the teacher outrage? This is all just political. Shame on teachers for putting their ideology and greed ahead of kids.

 

I've taken the rare step of writing my Republican State Senator and my one Republican Rep to remind them that they are expected to reject any proposed tax increases beyond the justified 11 cent gas tax they have already agreed to.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Fairweather

[ivan]

I732 (teacher COLAs - the question at hand) passed by 63%, hombre - would you say that's not a clear mandate?

 

I1351 has nothing to do w/ teacher pay - on that topic though, if the election rules say you need better than 50% to win, do you really wanna wander down the road of "weeeeeeeeell, this initiative i didn't like DID get better than 50%, but fuck-it!"?

[ivan]

how often do gov's hand the people un-funded mandates? i like the irony of that hammer swinging both ways.

[Peter_Puget]

seen a fair bit of humorous arguing over whether the "strike" word is apropos lately too - kinda like splitting hairs between "tussle" "skirmish" "battle" or "Armageddon" - comparing what i saw today to, say, the famous pullman strike is like comparing the first day of a little-league practice to game 7 of the world series

 

Ha I was thinking how incredibly pompous it was to call it a strike.

 

I imagine many of the teachers saying we are following in this grand tradition.

 

 

Back then strikers:

 

1) Gave up pay

2) face politicians bought by the evil company owner

3) company production stopped

4) strikers often got their ass kicked and lost jobs

 

Today:

 

1) Dont lose pay despite breaking their contract

2) workers have paid off the elected government via campaign donations

3) production doesnt stop

4) workers go back and all is good at work

5) The lowest paid families using the school system face the highest cost of the strike

 

 

[ivan]

my state union has 85,000 members - we are both a democratic and republican institution - i was recently 1 of 1200 representatives that (nearly unamiously) called on locals to support rolling walkouts in the spring and open-ended strikes at summer's end if the court's contempt charge stands - the walk-out that my local just did today was the result of a vote of nearly all 400 of our members, and approved by 2/3 of them - the fantasy that a handful of fat-cats at the top call the shots is just that, but i do understand WHY it's a useful fantasy

 

unions are a form of self-government - like all organs of government, they must be checked and balanced - nobody in a union is saying otherwise

[ivan]

seen a fair bit of humorous arguing over whether the "strike" word is apropos lately too - kinda like splitting hairs between "tussle" "skirmish" "battle" or "Armageddon" - comparing what i saw today to, say, the famous pullman strike is like comparing the first day of a little-league practice to game 7 of the world series

 

Ha I was thinking how incredibly pompous it was to call it a strike.

 

I imagine many of the teachers saying we are following in this grand tradition.

 

 

Back then strikers:

 

1) Gave up pay

2) face politicians bought by the evil company owner

3) company production stopped

4) strikers often got their ass kicked and lost jobs

 

Today:

 

1) Dont lose pay despite breaking their contract

2) workers have paid off the elected government via campaign donations

3) production doesnt stop

4) workers go back and all is good at work

5) The lowest paid families using the school system face the highest cost of the strike

 

i agree the use of the term "strike" has been inconsistent - i've said "let's be serious, this ain't selma" about a thousand time over the past fortnight - i see folks on your side of the ledger far more eager to roll it out at any rate

 

these rolling walk-outs are a species of saber-rattling to be sure - but the point of saber-rattling is, in the end, to remind an opponent that you have a saber, no?

 

strikes worthy of the name ARE a serious possibility, as the recent show of force illustrates - i am NOT desirous of it, for all the reason's on your little list, but than most sensible soldiers would prefer to only play at war as well

 

i do take issue with #5 on your list - there is no effect on families of any socio-economic level - sure, they paid for childcare today, but they won't pay for it next month when they would've otherwise - ALSO, every local in SW WA today choose this day b/c it's already an early release day for elementary kids, so parents already had early daycare factored into their plans

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

Isn't this just about the teacher's not getting a pay increase in several years, yet alone to match increase cost of living increases? Districts avoid pay increases year after year. Eventually teachers get pissed and strike. There's a settlement and a nominal pay increase.

 

There's worse shit in the world to worry about fuckers!

 

 

[Peter_Puget]

 

i do take issue with #5 on your list - there is no effect on families of any socio-economic level - sure, they paid for childcare today, but they won't pay for it next month when they would've otherwise - ALSO, every local in SW WA today choose this day b/c it's already an early release day for elementary kids, so parents already had early daycare factored into their plans

 

Any parent who had to use PTO for day care paid a cost that isn't offset in the future. Second you have no way of knowing anyone finances and child care situation so any "hey it just offset later" is simply bullshit. There certainly is a impact on people lives - that was part of the intention. To say there was "No effect" can only be considered either mindless babble or an outright misstatement of fact. I have talked to parent irritated with having to deal with the impact. This irritation is an expressed purpose of the "strike" otherwise it would pass without notice. The impact might not be huge but is exists.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2015 by Peter_Puget

[ivan]

sure, COLA is a part of this, but the democratic majorities voting for this are motivated by a constellation of grievances:

 

- testing schemes that are insane (jesus, teachers are OF COURSE okay w/ the idea of testing in general - but why are elementary kids getting 5 continuous weeks of tests thrown at them that require (if you'll allow a wee-bit of hyperbole to simplify the conversation) 9 year olds to demonstrate mastery of calculus (and using said tests to make life-or-death decisions about the teacher entrusted w/ this quixotic task?)

 

- seizure of local communities power to improve their schools beyond what the state offers

 

- class sizes that are nearly the worst in the nation

 

- continual adding of new tasks w/o removal of old ones

 

- massive sub-shortages (the result of the fact that education schools (the source of most subs - kids looking for a full-time job and looking to get into the system) are seeing huge decreases in enrollment given the pointlessness of the profession in current conditions)

 

- the annihilation of bargaining rights

 

- the willful flouting of basic democratic concepts (initiatives, supreme court decisions)

 

- the realization that all of the above will continue and accelerate if the status quo continues

[Peter_Puget]

my state union has 85,000 members - we are both a democratic and republican institution - i was recently 1 of 1200 representatives that (nearly unamiously) called on locals to support rolling walkouts in the spring and open-ended strikes at summer's end if the court's contempt charge stands - the walk-out that my local just did today was the result of a vote of nearly all 400 of our members, and approved by 2/3 of them - the fantasy that a handful of fat-cats at the top call the shots is just that, but i do understand WHY it's a useful fantasy

 

unions are a form of self-government - like all organs of government, they must be checked and balanced - nobody in a union is saying otherwise

 

I dont think this comment was directed at me but since you brought up republican membership in the union can you give us any data on the number of republicans in WA and your area in particular.

 

I think polling data from the 2003 National Education Study indicate only 25 % identify as Republican. A Harris Interactive poll from 2003 showed that 83 percent of Republican teachers union members felt that the union was more liberal than they were. These are national number so I would be surprised if WA republican membership was this high.

 

[ivan]

 

i do take issue with #5 on your list - there is no effect on families of any socio-economic level - sure, they paid for childcare today, but they won't pay for it next month when they would've otherwise - ALSO, every local in SW WA today choose this day b/c it's already an early release day for elementary kids, so parents already had early daycare factored into their plans

 

Any parent who had to use PTO for day care paid a cost that isn't offset in the future. Second you have no way of knowing anyone finances and child care situation so any "hey it just offset later" is simply bullshit. There certainly is a impact on people lives - that was part of the intention. To say there was "No effect" can only be considered either mindless babble or an outright misstatement of fact. I have talked to parent irritated with having to deal with the impact. This irritation is an expressed purpose of the "strike" otherwise it would pass without notice. The impact might not be huge but is exists.

 

a protest that doesn't irritate is hardly worthy of the name - the intent was to offer a protest that would be would sufficient to gain attention, but not enough to cause anything like significant harm - teachers are parents too, you might recall - we also found ourselves needing to take care of our kids on what's normally a working day

[ivan]

 

I dont think this comment was directed at me but since you brought up republican membership in the union can you give us any data on the number of republicans in WA and your area in particular.

 

I think polling data from the 2003 National Education Study indicate only 25 % identify as Republican. A Harris Interactive poll from 2003 showed that 83 percent of Republican teachers union members felt that the union was more liberal than they were. These are national number so I would be surprised if WA republican membership was this high.

that teachers are more inclined to liberalism is hardly odd - what avocation isn't accompanied by leanings in ideology? i'm pretty certain most stock-brokers aren't inclined to socialism

 

the fact that locals (like those in the tri-cities) in solid-red eastern washington are joining into walk-outs indicates this is more than just a buncha surrender-monkeys pissed off at the lack of soy-lattes in the breakroom

[ivan]

also, my comment wasn't that there are Republicans and Democrats in the membership (though indeed that is true, albeit w/ an imbalance) - i meant that we use both republican institutions (like deliberative representative councils at the local, state and national levels) and democratic approaches (majority votes of the entire membership on contracts and labor-actions) as part of our scheme of self-government

[ivan]

perhaps a trifle, but the political action/contribution part of my union (which members have to opt into under state law) is not universally anti-Republican party - here in SW WA we have endorsed several Republican candidates (i've hosted some of them in my government classes)

[Fairweather]

 

- the willful flouting of basic democratic concepts (initiatives, supreme court decisions)

 

- the realization that all of the above will continue and accelerate if the status quo continues

 

It's more than a little ironic teachers choose now to agitate for particular legislation--in the new post-Democrat Olympia monopoly era. Gimme a break.

 

As for your stated/desired version of "democracy" in the form of initiatives (mob rule) and state supreme court dictates (a directory), well, I hardly think your version of democracy passes any American history test on republican government. Yet another reason American libs can't be trusted with the torch.

 

I honestly hope teachers do walk out en masse at some point in the future. I'll be even happier to see their union broken as a result of the public backlash that follows.

[Fairweather]

Conservative analysis, post-election:

 

http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/blog/post/wea-union-sees-declining-influence-recent-election

 

 

[ivan]

yup, if history's taught us anything, it's the clear need to break the back of workers ability to get redress

 

south carolina has plenty of space for pricks such as yourself, and a long, rich history of sneering at uppity slaves too, you oughta consider re-settling?

 

[ivan]

Conservative analysis, post-election:

 

http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/blog/post/wea-union-sees-declining-influence-recent-election

 

shocking conclusions

 

yeah, monica stonier, total union cigar smoker n' hater of kids, you got that pegged man - ole lizzie's a true lady of the people

[Fairweather]

yup, if history's taught us anything, it's the clear need to break the back of workers ability to get redress

 

south carolina has plenty of space for pricks such as yourself, and a long, rich history of sneering at uppity slaves too, you oughta consider re-settling?

 

No problem with private-sector unions. No use for public extortionists who use kids as human shields.