election 2014

[ivan]

[video:youtube]

same as it ever was...same as it ever was...

[ivan]

least them legal weeds are gettign more popular...oughta make the next 10 years more palatable

[tvashtarkatena]

I'm quite happy with the results.

 

DC, AK, OR ended Prohibition 2.0

 

AK, AR, IL, NE increased their minimum wage

 

CA reduced most non-violent felonies to misdemeanors - blowing a huge hole in Prohibition 2.0

 

CO and ND rejected personhood at conception

 

IL bolstered voting rights and requires birth control to be covered

 

MI bolstered protection of personal electronic data

 

OR passed an ERA according to sex

 

OR also voted for 'top 2' primary voting - moving one step closer towards WA's voting system - the best in the country. Like WA, OR already votes by mail - a system which blocks most of the voter suppression shenanigans we've been seeing elsewhere in the past 15 years.

 

WA voted overwhelmingly for background checks for private gun sales

 

Education didn't fare well across the nation, but other than that - things went pretty well in the States.

 

Congress? Who cares? They'll sit on their asses doing nothing, just like they've been doing for the past 2 years.

 

[marc_leclerc]

[Ben Beckerich]

I'm quite happy with the results.

 

DC, AK, OR ended Prohibition 2.0

 

AK, AR, IL, NE increased their minimum wage

 

CA reduced most non-violent felonies to misdemeanors - blowing a huge hole in Prohibition 2.0

 

CO and ND rejected personhood at conception

 

IL bolstered voting rights and requires birth control to be covered

 

MI bolstered protection of personal electronic data

 

OR passed an ERA according to sex

 

OR also voted for 'top 2' primary voting - moving one step closer towards WA's voting system - the best in the country. Like WA, OR already votes by mail - a system which blocks most of the voter suppression shenanigans we've been seeing elsewhere in the past 15 years.

 

WA voted overwhelmingly for background checks for private gun sales

 

Education didn't fare well across the nation, but other than that - things went pretty well in the States.

 

Congress? Who cares? They'll sit on their asses doing nothing, just like they've been doing for the past 2 years.

 

I just can't believe more laws didn't get passed. FUCKsake we need more laws.

 

Damn shame about Washington. Perfect example of a naive, completely disconnected majority facefucking liberty and cleaning up with the Constitution.

 

Voter Initiative needs to be 2/3rds, not simple majority. We have a representative system because direct democracy is a bad thing. Even intelligent people can be pretty easily convinced of some pretty dumb shit.

[tvashtarkatena]

Gotta sell your guns through a gun shop now.

 

You'll live.

 

If that means even one less mass shooting or gun crime, call me unfeeling, but I'm going to find it pretty hard to shed a tear for that extra trip down to Butch's Guns. The majority of voters in WA are breathing just a little bit easier this morning.

 

In the balance, the initiatives passed this election drastically unburden the common citizen of needless prohibitions. They greatly simplify our laws, or simply update existing ones (minimum wage, for example). They also clarify some ambiguities or missing protections that have resulted in much litigation - voter suppression, illegal surveillance, discrimination. This will, in turn, unburden our courts, freeing them for more important business.

 

Now, adding a personhood amendment would sure complicate things - but voters wisely rejected that nonsense.

 

Initiatives exist because most legislatures find themselves out of touch with voters with regards to certain issues. They are an important part of enacting reform sooner than later. When things don't go their way, there are inevitably some short sighted citizens who blame the process and beg to have a large chunk of their democratic power taken away from them.

 

I take a bit longer view, even if it doesn't make for a tasty sound bite.

 

 

[Ben Beckerich]

I live in Oregon... I can keep selling my guns no-questions-asked in back alleys and abandoned warehouses.

[tvashtarkatena]

For now. What happens successfully in WA tends to migrate south, as two copycat OR initiatives would indicate. Given its overwhelming support among both citizens and law enforcement, background checks for private sales are a known loophole in criminal gun trafficking and a pretty easy sell at the ballot box.

 

Stay tuned....

[Fairweather]

Gotta love the way the WA State Senate is going. The tastiest bite of a pretty sweet pie, IMO.

 

The 594 feel good is not a big deal. WA Ceasefire will feel emboldened on their black gun agenda--or cwp--and get smacked down left scratching their collective head next go-round.

 

Harry Reid taken down a big notch. The second best bite of the night. I wonder if he'll be screaming for restoration of the old post cloture rules now?

 

[Ben Beckerich]

For now. What happens successfully in WA tends to migrate south, as two copycat OR initiatives would indicate.

 

Not on this topic. Oregon has always led the way for gun rights, over WA. They didn't even allow USE of suppressors (you could own them, though- wonderfully written law) or possession of SBRs until the last couple of years.

[Ben Beckerich]

The 594 feel good is not a big deal. WA Ceasefire will feel emboldened on their black gun agenda--or cwp--and get smacked down left scratching their collective head next go-round.

 

No, it's not a big deal, but it's a step backward, and a reminder of stupid people can be in a group. Discouraging.

 

Let's also remember that the ONLY thing this does is add a complication and expense for already law-abiding people- criminals will continue to buy their guns illegally.... so I'm afraid the hope that a restriction of liberty will prevent a mass-shooting is utterly fruitless.

[tvashtarkatena]

Not really. The two states are substantially similar with regards to gun rights, although WA does recognize reciprocal concealed carry licenses from other states, and OR does not.

 

Anyway, few in WA care all that much that gun owners have to sell their used equipment through federally licensed dealers.

 

Not a heavy burden for a few in exchange for closing a known, gaping loophole in gun trafficking - something which affects all of us.

 

Welcome to the modern world.

 

 

 

[Ben Beckerich]

Not really. The two states are substantially similar with regards to gun rights, although WA does recognize reciprocal concealed carry licenses from other states, and OR does not.

 

Anyway, few in WA care all that much that gun owners have to sell their used equipment through federally licensed dealers.

 

Not a heavy burden for a few in exchange for closing a gaping loophole in gun trafficking - something which affects all of us.

 

Welcome to the modern world.

 

 

Closing a hole in gun trafficking?? LOL... How, pray-tell?

 

It's not only super easy to bypass, but is essentially unenforceable also. The only people who will comply are 100% legit and risk-averse types, and the only reason anyone will comply is because of the very remote chance that they'd get in trouble and lose their gun privileges.

 

People who want to ignore the law completely still have that option- and with extremely low odds of ever getting in trouble for it. But if you're someone intent on doing crimes with your guns, "low odds" aren't something you worry about at all.

 

This law does NOTHING to prevent crime, but just makes more stuff a crime.

[tvashtarkatena]

My bro was the chief public defender of Humbolt County - he handled A LOT of weapons charges cases. Your dead wrong if you think that criminals are a) unaware of gun laws and b) don't care about them - particularly in a state where 3 strikes/mandatory sentencing can put you in prison for life for them.

 

The bulk of WA law enforcement doesn't agree with your assertions, either.

 

In other words, spare me the usual unsupported drivel.

[Ben Beckerich]

I cannot answer that question.

 

Fixed it for you.

[tvashtarkatena]

NRA of America Washingtonians Opposed to I-594 Amount raised: $489,331 Amount spent: $373,704

 

They pocketed the remaining $115K LOL.

 

If you can come up with a million bucks to put a repeal initiative on the ballot in 2016, and another 5 million to get it passed by voters, go for it.

 

Given the 20% margin of victory (that's a slaughter), good luck with donors.

 

By 2016, of course, folks will have realized that the world didn't end because of I594. People tend to move on to the next big thing, ya know?

 

Ah, real politics. It's just not like the internet.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ben Beckerich]

NRA of America Washingtonians Opposed to I-594 Amount raised: $489,331 Amount spent: $373,704

 

They pocketed the remaining $115K LOL.

 

If you can come up with a million bucks to put a repeal initiative on the ballot in 2016, and another 5 million to get it passed by voters, go for it.

 

Given the 20% margin of victory (that's a slaughter), good luck with donors.

 

By 2016, of course, folks will have realized that the world didn't end because of I594. People tend to move on to the next big thing, ya know?

 

Ah, real politics. It's just not like the internet.

 

 

 

 

 

Dude... seriously. If you truly have nothing and you know it, just say it. Own up to it.

 

I approve of this law just because. I have no realistic argument for it, I just don't like the idea of people being able to transfer ownership of guns without a background check, and even though there's very little recourse to enforce or prosecute under this law, I would rather law-abiding people have to go to FFLs to transfer their guns.

 

Just own it.

[tvashtarkatena]

And here's what you'll be up against in 2016:

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/11/the-gun-control-movement-is-learning-how-to-win/382407/

 

Success breeds success.

 

Supporters outspent the NRA 20 to 1 on the I594 campaign. Good luck getting money from the NRA next time after that wire brush treatment.

 

BTW, you'll need $10 million, not my previously mentioned lowball figure of 5.

 

Or you could work through the legislature (chuckle), since the initiative process is so wrong.

[Crux]

 

And now, about election returns on the national front, from an outraged White House press corps, this just in:

 

Barack Obama is still President. And he's smiling!

 

[Ben Beckerich]

And here's what you'll be up against in 2016:

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/11/the-gun-control-movement-is-learning-how-to-win/382407/

 

Success breeds success.

 

Supporters of I594 outspent the NRA 20 to 1. Good luck getting money from them next time after that burn.

 

It seems like you're trying to shield your complete lack of a position to stand on by acting like we're having some kind of political debate... So here: I don't know what the future holds, and it could be that you're right, and evil big money will prevail, and our Constitutional rights will be further eroded and made even more meaningless.

 

---

 

All of that out of the way, now:

 

How can this law be enforced, and how can it be prosecuted? Realistic scenarios, please.

 

ETA: Realistic application, please. I don't want to make it too narrow for you. Any plausible argument will work.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Ben Beckerich

[tvashtarkatena]

The future will unfold and answer all, as it do.

[Ben Beckerich]

The future will unfold and answer all, as it do.

 

You voted for a law you cannot make a single argument in favor of?

 

I thought, for some reason, I would get a rational debate from you... but you're just a vindictive anti-gun dick. Weak, dude. Very weak.

[tvashtarkatena]

"I thought, for some reason, I would get a rational debate from you... but you're just a vindictive anti-gun dick."

 

You probably get this a lot. Good luck in your new political career. Bye.

 

 

[ivan]

18 year old getting elected to her state's congress after beating a 66 year old (in an election she couldn't even vote in) was pretty kewl

 

we can copy oregon too - we took their death w/ dignity law pretty much verbatim i recall

[tvashtarkatena]

Politically, OR and WA are as similar as it gets.