Seattle Times Rainier Guiding Article

[Rodchester]

"Currently IFMGA guides from other countries are not allowed to work in the United States. "

 

Actually this is partly correct....but not completely. Any guide from anywhere that has a work permit and a job can guide in the USA. His foregin certifications don't mean much. US certifcations don't mean much.

 

All you need is permission to guide from the relevant gov't agency and a proper INS work permit. Now that is certainly easier said than done. But RMI, MMI, AAI, can hire foregin guides so long as they can get a work visa.

 

Yes easier said than done.

[iain]

it would seem it would be in RMI's best interest to avoid development of outside independent certification of their guides, as with certifications comes increased salary expectations and marketablility with other companies....

[Jason_Martin]

Rodchester said:

 

Actually this is partly correct....but not completely. Any guide from anywhere that has a work permit and a job can guide in the USA. His foregin certifications don't mean much. US certifcations don't mean much.

 

All you need is permission to guide from the relevant gov't agency and a proper INS work permit. Now that is certainly easier said than done. But RMI, MMI, AAI, can hire foregin guides so long as they can get a work visa.

 

Rodchester,

 

Your point is taken... However, I don't think you understood what I meant.

 

European certified guides would like to work for themselves (not for an established guide service) in the United States. They would like to come here and spend a month on Denali or in Yosemite working for themselves with their European clients.

 

The red tape that they must cut through in order to do this is not only difficult, it's quite near impossible.

 

American Guides in Europe may work for themselves. They may take their own clientel to Europe and spend some time there guiding with minimal red tape if they are certified.

 

Jason

[PaulB]

nerdom said:

I had heard somewhere that Lou once guided Robert Kennedy up Rainier and became friends with him, and that JFK granted the exclusive concession. Apocryphal, I know, but it's what someone had related to me.

 

I saw Jim Whittaker's presentation at the VIMFF this weekend, and he had several slides of himself with the Kennedys. He guided Robert up Mt. Kennedy in the Yukon in 1965. Politics being what they are, its not hard to believe that a guiding concession on Rainier could be arranged by the powers that be.

 

As an aside, I was a bit dissapointed in Jim's slide show.... too much political commentary. It was pretty obvious that he's a Democrat with no love for George W., but I didn't think a mountain film festival was the right venue for his message.

[cj001f]

Jason -

 

The red tape your speaking about is at the National Park Service level - it has little to do with the AMGA(though they have now started lobbying to change this), and it affects all guides, foreign and domestic. If you want to legally guide (whether your an American, a Euro, or a space alien) someone in a National Park or National Forest, you must be approved by that local body to guide there (i.e. MRNP, etc.). Anyone can guide on private land, no questions asked.

 

[COL._Von_Spanker]

Yeah, you just gotta keep it grassroots and on the down low. Guide for free with the understanding that you will be justly compensated with a "tip" at the end of the trip.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Jason_Martin said:

Cpt.Caveman said:

Let the RMI guides make money.

 

IF some guides want to make real money they'd call on gaper clients and try out shit like Liberty Ridge, Mowich Face, Ptarmigan Ridge and other shit. Then we'd all have more entertainment with the news folks too

 

But the reality *seems* to be that most guides wouldn't want to guide those routes for various reasons. My guess is fitness of the clients AND the guides fitness as well as many other things If it was Chominix would the Willis Wall be guided every other week or what

 

There are a lot of misconceptions on your part Caveman.

 

First and foremost, most guides would love to guide things like Ptarmigan Ridge or Liberty Ridge. Not only that, they would not be particularly hard trips to sell. Many clients are not "gapers." In fact, there is a percentage that are high end. Unfortunately, these routes will not be open to guides unless the Park Service changes their policies... Which it looks like might happen based on the article which started this thread.

 

In Washington State, the North Ridge of Stuart, the Serpentine Arete on Dragontail, the North Ridge of Mt. Baker, the Coleman Headwall on Mt. Baker, Frostbite Ridge on Glacier, and even routes like the East Buttress Direct on South Early Winter Spire are guided many times every year. These are not necessarily the hardest routes in the state, but they are moderately difficult and are not for those whom you are calling "gapers."

 

Were the Willis Wall in Chamonix, it would definately be guided.

 

Guides have a slightly different mindset than the average climber. They take pride in getting people up moderately hard climbs safely.

 

Most guides receive a great deal of training in order to bring people up into the mountians safely. There are thousands of people being guided in Washington State every summer. More likely than not, you can only come up with one or two incidents involving clients or guides getting hurt in this state off the top of your head.

 

The whole idea that guides are in some way unsafe and get people hurt on a regular basis is ludicrous. On top of that, the idea that guides are not in shape and cannot climb hard is also a myth.

 

Outside of the state, the Cassin Ridge on Denali has been guided. The Nose and the Regular Northwest Face of Half Dome are guided in Yosemite all the time. The Black Ice Couloir in the Tetons is guided. Hard ice and rock routes around the country are guided every day...

 

When knocking guides and saying that they're gapers or out of shape, think about people like Steve House, Alan Kearney, Jim Nelson, Topher Donahue, Crag Luebben, Miles Smart, Doug Robinson, and all the others you're knocking.

 

Every guide I know is looking for challenging guiding. They are looking for things that engage both them and their clients. Your analysis of the guiding scene in America is not only ignorant, it's simply not based in reality.

 

Jason

 

I never said they were not guided. I also never said all clients were gapers. My comments were made to spark some debate thought and bullshit.

 

You have included some of all but don't attack me with your know it all self righteous bullshit as if I am saying anything totally serious here.

 

What a putz