CaleHoopes Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Ok, so in the parka department. WTF. Is this yet another GAME CHANGER?!?!? http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/patagonia-encapsil-down-belay-parka?sssdmh=dm23.153895&p=84645-0-065&src=030113_mi1&dmmid=124359299 18 oz (518 grams) 1000-fill power WATER-REPELLENT DOWN So, if Patagonia's Encapsil tech works, this parka is a HALF POUND lighter than the DAS Parka and if the 1000-fill down is warmer, seems like a win. Compare to the Mirage Parka at 12 oz - 900-fill down. However, not water repellent treated down. On the other hand, the Patagonia is $699, and the Mirage is $349. What do you guys think? (Dane) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 can non-Danes chime in? For $700 I could pay someone to make me lose 5 pounds of blubba which would have benefits year round. the idea of waterproof down seems odd as it should be butt ass cold to wear a down jacket, therefore not needing waterproofing. It does seem like a good product and pataguchi don'e usually put out crap so I suspect that it lives up to its self hype. Now I wouldn't go out and get one unless it was a present, severe sale or found in the mountains. But I am a sorta old fart and resistant to new idears and gear. maybe it is the game changer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) if twight calls it cheating, I will go out and buy one. full retail. Edited March 1, 2013 by genepires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 1000 fill waterproof down Sourced only from the bellies of Emperor Penguins I fully expect it to lose waterproofness over time, and then you are screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I've seen a lot of nice down jackets in the past couple of years. And the industry has a twice yearly "game changer" @ OR. Some real and some imagined. Here is what I have been told. YMMV. I simply don't know enought to comment any further. But call me skyptical. Water proof down goes back to/comes from the fly fishermen. I have not talked with any of the current proponents of water proof down directly. But I did happen upon two of the major manufactures that have decided not to use a treated down in their garments. The reasons as I understood them? Not hard to turn 700 fill down into 1000 fill down by this process. Just hard to keep it 1000 fill down in long term use. Not hard to make water proof down. Just hard to keep it water proof down long term. My opinion? Down garments and bags will last generations and fully functional if properly cared for. The good ones are and have always been expensive. I want mine to last and work as expected from day one till I decide to ditch it. I understand the reasoning behind wanting water proof down. Great idea. And it may well be a game changer. But when two of the best manufactures in down gear currently decide they want to wait...and for what seems like good reasons. I'm hestitant. The flip side to all that? I've had the chance to spend the winter in the newest Patagonia alpine line of clothing. Guide, Mixed Guide, North Wall and Knife Blade/Piton combos. Gotta say I am really impressed with every piece of the line. The designers and the althetes have obviously come together in the alpine line with some amazing synergy. I really am impressed. Even though I think it might better be described as a dh ski line as easily as a "alpine" implied climbing line. It works for both and looks pretty natty All of which bodes well imo for the new down. Just not convinced yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanb Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Read the care instructions. Apparently the price includes a sort of service contract where you send it back to patagonia for a special CO2 cleaning to preserve the loft. Seems like a lot of thought went into it but also seems a bit fragile. I would be surprised if the sweat, salt and stank I put into a parka from a couple months use ski touring leaves a more persistant residue then a bit of downwash...at leased based on smell I did notice synthetic advocate Kelly Cordes mentioning/climbing in a "killer new downsweater prototype" in some recent posts on patagonia's the "Cleanest Line" blog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaleHoopes Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 if twight calls is cheating, I will go out and buy one. full retail. +1 to Gene for best response. Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric K Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Even without Encapsil, the cut and design of the Jacket seem great, but I don't often climb anywhere cold enough for such a warm jacket and could not justify $700. Maybe once I start regularly heading to the Canadian rockies or AK. Encapsil seems like really cool technology which would be better served on jackets designed for less cold areas where liquid water or wet snow is more likely. If Encapsil works as well as they say it does, I think it would be logical to begin using Encapsil in there other down jackets. If they trust Encapsil's durability enough to sell it to the masses then I will probably buy it. So I would like to wait and see, and sense it is already sold out I guess thats our only option! Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaleHoopes Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 So, a lot of the responses from Mountain Project regarded the cost. I agree this is way overpriced. However, I also believe that MH's gear using Dry Q is way overpriced. That doesn't remove it's merit as a technology. It simply prices it out of casual use as far as I'm concerned. What's interesting to me here - is how the technologies are changing. Imagine that in 5 years, Encapsil is firmly planted in outdoor technologies and the price point has come down. It'd be amazing to have a very warm very light jacket in my pack that's not made up of horrible water soaking untreated down. So, really I'm just watching these technologies. I find it interesting to see if I can catch the "change" that affected the entire industry. Once again, Encapsil is probably more suited for AK range, belay jackets in below zero temps (yes, I had like 5 days like this in Ouray) or something like that. Will I spend $700? No. Am I intrigued? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) You don't send your New Down back to be re CO2 injected and vacuum sealed. You have your factotum do it. Edited March 20, 2013 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallstein Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I've used the new Encapsil on a couple of climbs already, well truth be told I actually haven't been able wear it but my partners have. That is one of the problems with being a photographer for Patagonia, my partners get to wear all the new cool fancy stuff. Firstly if you just ignore the Enapsil down fill in the jacket and just look at the jacket design you will notice Patagonia has gone to great lengths to look at every detail and every seam to make sure it is done right. The new cuffs at first look weird but after talking with partners about them they are extremely happy with how they work. The jacket is a lot easier to take off and putt on while wearing large gloves than any other jacket I've seen. The hood actually fits well with a helmet and well without one. The overall cut of the jacket is also improved compared with something like the DAS. Its hard for me to really comment on the waterproofness of the Encapsil down. The first jacket I got to use didn't have production quality down in it and it never got wet. On the last climb I used it on it was also dry out so again it was pretty hard to tell any difference. What I am even more excited about than the waterproofness of the down is the 1000 fill loft. And I think this is probably a conservative measurement of the down. It us unbelievable how warm the jacket is for its weight and packed volume. Just a couple weeks ago I had the pleasure of climbing Cerro Torre and making all of the rappels at night. We we were a team of three so there was lots of standing around at the belay with Kate my partner. She had the Encpasil parka (518grams) on and I had a Hooded Hi-Loft down sweater plus an Ultra Light hooded sweater (total of 705grams) and well I completely froze my ass off. My teeth chattered all night long and Kate was barely complaining about being cold. I know that isn't a scientific test but it was pretty obvious she had the WAY better setup then me. Above pic is Josh Wharton on the Greenwood-Locke on Mt. Temple Kate Rutherford on the West Face of Cerro Torre ---Full Disclosure--- I work for Patagonia so take my review with a grain of salt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaleHoopes Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Wallstein! Thanks for the great review. That was the kind of experience I was looking to hear about for sure (regardless of the shameful plug)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric K Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Lets hope this jacket and the lessons learned will be passed down to us instead of ending up as a "look at how cleaver we are" publicity piece! Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosterson Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 "Numbered, limited edition." Be sure not to take it out of the package in order to preserve full collector's resale value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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