2x 9a OS

[matt_warfield]

I was hoping you would weigh in.

[RuMR]

Matt, FYI, Marc started as a Canadian youth comp climber....

[RuMR]

I guess, Matt, the problem i have with your post is it sort of reeks of disrespect kind of.

 

It feels like "Oh yeah, that's not such a big deal...i'd like to see him get crushed here, because its all REAL and what not."

 

I just don't get it...

 

Yeah, sure, someone may not be completely versed in one style of climbing as opposed to another...is that your point?????

[matt_warfield]

I'm not surprised. That means he prolly knows McColl and all the rest of the gang, old and new that is part of a proud Squamish history.

[matt_warfield]

I guess, Matt, the problem i have with your post is it sort of reeks of disrespect kind of.

 

It feels like "Oh yeah, that's not such a big deal...i'd like to see him get crushed here, because its all REAL and what not."

 

I just don't get it...

 

Yeah, sure, someone may not be completely versed in one style of climbing as opposed to another...is that your point?????

 

RuMR, my point is just that granite can punish people that are not used to it. Limestone or basalt or sandstone can be the same on the flip side. I'm not trying to disrespect anybody. But lets not kid anyone that we don't get attracted to the type of climbing that suits our abilities. It is rarely all types.

[matt_warfield]

 

Wonder what they would think about the grades at Squamish?

 

I know two or three 5.13's in the Smoke Bluffs I can pretty much guarantee Ondra himself wouldn't onsight. Beta flash with chalk on the holds perhaps

 

Ondra is one kick-ass mutherfucker though. The tantrums are a bit over the top, it's like, "Bro, you just pumped off a 5.15 and it sounds like you shoved your dick in a blender, don't beat yourself up". But he seems to really love climbing and is really psyched to keep pushing limits, and is doing a VERY good job. Rock on Adam

 

What I have been trying to say through this entire thread.

 

Its not disrespect, its reality.

 

And where the hell is glasgowkiss. He set off this bomb and hasn't weighed in. Just letting us duke it out in the cage without comment?

Edited November 14, 2012 by matt_warfield

[glassgowkiss]

Good climber is a good climber, period. That has been proven again and again. Ondra right now has hardest redpoints and hardest os-sights. As the matter of fact he actually climbed most of 9a/9a+ at the moment. Let's not forget he also just climbed a route in Norway rated 9a/9a+, as the matter of fact a granite route, which might be one of the hardest in the world. So my take on this is, that if he showed up in Squamish with zero ability to crack climb, he would pretty much be able to layback every crack and not get too pumped.

[RuMR]

EXACTLY, BOB!

[mountainmatt]

Bro, you just pumped off a 5.15 and it sounds like you shoved your dick in a blender, don't beat yourself up.

 

 

.

[Julian]

I love all this talk about how granite would shut Ondra down on an onsight, when he onsighted Jorg Verhoeven's route Nordic Flower (8c+/9a) on granite in Norway, with double ropes and something like 16 quickdraws on his harness when he left the ground.

[matt_warfield]

Absolutely, I respect Ondra. He is the next generation along with etc.

 

But there is a reason why there is no 5.15 granite slab or no 5.15 granite offwidth. Because monos and twos and half pad crimps on 30 deg. overhanging limestone is a parallel universe.

 

But I have a toothache today so am a bit edgy.

 

Edited November 23, 2012 by matt_warfield

[glassgowkiss]

But there is a reason why there is no 5.15 granite slab or no 5.15 granite offwidth.

Actually, there are plenty of 5.14 slabs on sandstone in Great Britain and a few areas, Yosemite included (like the pitch on Direct NW of Half Dome). There are some 5.13 something OW, even in Indian Creek. Rudy's (and my too) point is, that 5.10 or 11 is NOT FUCKING HARD, PERIOD!

[matt_warfield]

Okay. I can be wrong once in a while.

 

But there is not much granite in England. Lots of slate which is even worse than granite. Johnny Dawes knows.

 

And I have still seen 5.14 climbers at least hesitate on 5.11 slab on granite if not fall off despite their ability to redpoint their limit repeatedly

Edited November 24, 2012 by matt_warfield

[gertlush]

There's more granite than slate.

[matt_warfield]

I guess I was focusing on slab.

[gertlush]

Ah, fair enough. But who wants to climb hard slab anyway when you could climb this:

 

[img:center]http://www.touchtherock.com/images/content/Gallery/The%20slide.JPG[/img]

[matt_warfield]

My final entry in this thread, after all the talk about 5.10 and 5.11 which I regret, is try "Hall of Mirrors" at Yosemite, slab and granite and at 12c is done much more rarely than many 5.14 sport climbs.

 

I am watching for somebody to onsight that or the routes that Marc talked about or any route involving Leavitation, which I doubt Ondra is familiar with.

 

He is an awesome climber, dont't get me wrong, and I won't say granite is the only culprit, just that certain kinds of rock will challenge you differently and shut you down by at least a number grade or maybe two.

 

Peace and out.

Edited November 24, 2012 by matt_warfield

[Julian]

The hardest slab climb in the world is probably James McHaffie's route Meltdown on the slate in Llanberis, which is estimated at 9a/5.14d. To put this in perspective, hes's being projecting Rainshadow 9a at Malham for a while now without redpointing it, a route which Adam Ondra dispatched in a few tries. The best sport climbers can get up just about anything, if they want to. Also, it's worth acknowledging that all the best trad climbers in the world right now (Dave MacLeod, James McHaffie, Matt Wilder, Alex Honnold, James Pearson, Stevie Haston, etc.) all climb 5.14+ on bolts and/or V13+ on boulders.

[matt_warfield]

I will not dispute any of this. But what are the chances of onsighting that slab versus something with holds?

 

It has been my point all along.

 

And Leavitating 5.13 offwidth on sight is still on the table.

 

I remain a great fan of Ondra but like in track and field or swimming we know what our strengths are. I know none that are as good at 10K as they are at 100 M. or long jump.

 

But I respect glasgowkiss for starting this shitstorm and you for participating. I am a little disappointed that the flu shot thread has greatly outsripped this thread. What is the world coming to.

[glassgowkiss]

Okay. I can be wrong once in a while.

 

But there is not much granite in England. Lots of slate which is even worse than granite. Johnny Dawes knows.

There are 5.14 slabs in GB, as the matter of fact more then one. And btw they do get repeated (which nowadays mostly goes unreported) quite often. Which is exactly my point, that for a good climber a 5.14 pitch is a 5.14 pitch, regardless of the type of climbing. And even if the climbers are not familiar with specific rock, look what happened with Hubers. In no time these guys ticked more free routes on Elcap, then the rest of the US climbers put together. That included slab climbing and OW. The reason Ondra doesn't visit Squamish is simple- there are no hard enough routes for him to do.

 

[matt_warfield]

Okay, I acquiesce and now agree with you and Rudy.

 

But Dreamcatcher and the 13s Marc spoke of could catch his attention. I would say the reason is that the weather isn't attractive enough but then Britain and Norway are not that special either. But hell when you are that young you can't have been everywhere anyway.

 

I also appreciate your comment about how many ascents go unreported.

Edited November 28, 2012 by matt_warfield

[Julian]

And Leavitating 5.13 offwidth on sight is still on the table.

 

I'm not sure if you mean this specifically to Adam Ondra or in general. If it's the former, then it would be more a case of him just needing to practice the technique first. If it's the latter, then you might want to check out the list of offwidths Pete Whittaker and Tom Randall onsighted when they tore through the US last year. And these are two guys who mostly trained for it on a basement woody.

[matt_warfield]

Julian,

 

I do not disagree at all. But GGK's point was onsight.

 

To try to agree with everybody, I will say that what Whittaker and Randall did was very specific to offwidth at a very high level of difficulty. I don't think a high end sport climber used to other types of climbs is going to walk up and do Century Crack onsight without the prep you discuss. But they probably could if they wanted to as has been pointed out previously.

Edited November 29, 2012 by matt_warfield

[G-spotter]

The hardest slab climb in the world is probably James McHaffie's route Meltdown on the slate in Llanberis, which is estimated at 9a/5.14d. To put this in perspective, hes's being projecting Rainshadow 9a at Malham for a while now without redpointing it, a route which Adam Ondra dispatched in a few tries. The best sport climbers can get up just about anything, if they want to. Also, it's worth acknowledging that all the best trad climbers in the world right now (Dave MacLeod, James McHaffie, Matt Wilder, Alex Honnold, James Pearson, Stevie Haston, etc.) all climb 5.14+ on bolts and/or V13+ on boulders.

 

there are v14 and v15 slabs in japan

[matt_warfield]

Ondra #5 at La Sportiva comp out of 5. No offwidths or slabs involved. Salute Canada.

Edited December 14, 2012 by matt_warfield