V-threads without slings?

[mhux]

I was refreshing my knowledge of v-threads and I remembered reading somewhere (Colin Haley's blog I think) that mentioned making v-threads without using slings, that way you never leave any trash on the climb. (Using other people's v threads...sketch)

Any experience with this? Sounds great to me but I have concerns of the rope potentially freezing enough not to pull through, which would be a pain in the ass. Maybe the colder the ice the better?

[sobo]

Never tried it meseff, but I can see two scenarios where I think it would be OK:

 

1. The rope doesn't freeze at all, no matter what (temps above freezing or ice is super cold), so no problem, and

2. While rappelling, allow a little bit of rope to slide a wee more on one side of the rap device, then repeat with the other strand. The movement of the rope through the Abolokov keeps the rope in motion so it doesn't freeze, and alternating strands doesn't cause you to run out of rope on one side of the rap device before the other.

 

All that being said, it may take some effort to perfect this second approach, it could be considered dangerous by some, and may even involve some sawing/wear action on the ice at the Abolokov, which is never good. But I would suspect that the rope freezing in the v-thread really isn't a problem, so the first approach works just as well. I've had ropes freeze on rappel from ice climbs, but they didn't freeze in the Abolokov. They froze to the ice itself. That is, the ice that we had just climbed. I would be more concerned with that possibility when setting up the rap. My $0.02

[cbcbd]

I've done this a lot. The only times I do not use it is when the ice has a lot of running water around the v-thread area.

But it has to be very wet, and even then I was still able to free a rope in such instance with some good effort.

[mhux]

Awesome, good to know. Stoked not to leave a ton of slings, in that case!

[ScaredSilly]

I have done multiple V-threads sans a sling. After the first person raps I run the rope back and forth a bit then have the person at the bottom do the same. One thing that helps is being able to judge the ice strength - the stronger the ice the greater the angle thus less bend and easier to pull.

[sdizzle25]

any comment on how the size of screw used to make the v thread affects your ability to pull the rope? Ive messed around with pulling the rope through v threads made of 22 cm screws at a crag, but never have actually repelled off one

[Friedrich]

Will Gadd had some good comments about V-threads without strings on his blog recently (See answer#2, here)

 

He also referenced a study about study about ice anchor strength which looks at vertical vs horizontal V-threads, and re-boring existing holes.

 

It's a long study but the conclusions section is only one page.

 

[Hall]

Today I experimented with this technique on a low-angle flow near Leavenworth. I was NOT in any hurry to get down, and I HAD other rap options, but I thought I'd give this a method a try. I built a horizontal V-thread with a 17cm screw, and threaded my single 10mm rope through it. I realize that this method is intended for skinny half and twin ropes, but after a little trouble grabbing the rope with the hook, it eventually pulled through. I then rapped as usual, wondering if the rope would freeze with temps in the low 30s and some water dripping. It didn't, and pulled flawlessly. I probably would NOT do this with a 10mm rope in a "real" situation because it could be time consuming or impossible to thread is fat of a rope. I got lucky with a near perfectly aligned V-thread, but this does not always happen. The ice was bomber, and I had no doubts about safety in this case.