If you like Trout Creek...

[mtep]

...Let the BLM know!

 

This Fall it's come to light that the BLM is planning on shutting down access to Trout Creek Climbing Area from January 1 through August 1 in order to protect Golden Eagle habitat on the south end of the Main Wall. This would significantly impact our ability to recreate there and may be excessively conservative in terms of closure duration and distance from the nest site. At this point, local climbers, the access fund, and BLM staff have met at the crag and the BLM is considering not IF to implement a closure but how restrictive said closure will be.

 

If you've climbed at Trout, enjoyed the experience, and want to continue to enjoy the experience, let the BLM know that maximizing access is important to you.

http://www.facebook.com/FriendsofTroutCreek

[JosephH]

Do you know where the Goldens have been nesting in the vicinity? I'm guessing they wouldn't be proposing it if they didn't know where they were nesting in the past. Would be good to know the facts so you could stand a chance of scoping any closures appropriately if they can't be avoided entirely.

 

I'm also guessing Goldens would have some priority for WDFW and ODFW any time they had good info on nesting sites. See what you can do to find out where precisely they're talking about.

[Blake]

I spoke with folks @ the BLM office today. They are still expecting a likely closure for much of the spring and beyond, though nothing is set in stone. The wall is currently open, with no immediate closures planned.

 

It sounds like the default closure area used or suggested by the Dept of Fish and wildlife is for an area 1/4 mile from the nest (minimum) - some areas that institute Golden Eagle closures do so as early as December, and they generally extend to mid summer.

 

If you want to send your TC project, you may want to get after it pretty soon here.

[powderhound]

sucky......that nest is so dormant, I loveit when they close climbing areas for imaginary birds. I remember asking Jeff about the nest and he telling me he has never seen an eagle there. I haven't, has the BLM folks? What basis do they have that proves it is an active nest?

[powderhound]

There is a post on Super Topo about it being closed???? WTF. Any other news? This is such crap.

[Water]

Friends of Trout Creek (FB)

 

We received from the BLM on Jan 25 2012, this is what it said: "As you requested, enclosed you will find data we currently have regarding the Frog Springs and adjacent golden eagle territories along the Lower Deschutes River.... Currently, we are gathering information to fully understand the situation relative to protecting the Frog Springs territory, and therefore do not have a scheduled time line for the environmental analysis process. We will contact you when we know more about our timeline and management approach".

 

TODAY WE RECEIVED A PHONE CALL TELLING US THAT TROUT CREEK WILL BE CLOSED FEB 1ST THROUGH AUG 31ST.

 

The BLM said they would not ticket this weekend but would put up signs on Monday and then start ticketing.

If you have any questions or concerns please contact Cassandra Hummel

Natural Resource Specialist, Wildlife

Prineville Bureau of Land Management

3050 N.E. 3rd Street

Prineville, OR 97754

541-416-6700

[JosephH]

Ouch, that sucks. August 31st is a typical Federal lands open date. August 1st is what it should be at the latest.

 

If folks are interested enough, it would be good to contact Cassandra and find out:

 

* Are there any known nest locations in the area surrounding Trout?

* Are there any known nests at Trout itself?

* Are there any known nests within 300 yards of either end of Trout?

* Will there be any BLM resources monitoring the Golden Eagles in that area during the closure dates?

* If yes, who will those resources be?

* If yes, what physical locations will they be monitoring from?

* If yes, will the BLM be prepared to declare an early open if there is no nesting activity within 300 yards of Trout?

* If no, will they allow interested folks to cooperatively monitor in lieu of a BLM resource?

[corvallisclimb]

I know Cassandra personally, and she is an awesome person, so please no one go flipping her shit or anything along those lines. My gut instinct tells me she had nothing to do with the final decision...

Edited February 3, 2012 by corvallisclimb

[kevbone]

Do you know where the Goldens have been nesting in the vicinity? I'm guessing they wouldn't be proposing it if they didn't know where they were nesting in the past. Would be good to know the facts so you could stand a chance of scoping any closures appropriately if they can't be avoided entirely.

 

I'm also guessing Goldens would have some priority for WDFW and ODFW any time they had good info on nesting sites. See what you can do to find out where precisely they're talking about.

 

Like you know anything about closures. You have not done squat in regards to Beacon. Only complain about the complainers.

 

 

[Winter]

We put up a page with some basic information, suggested talking points and contact information for BLM officials.

 

Please voice your opinion.

[Alasdair]

sucky......that nest is so dormant, I loveit when they close climbing areas for imaginary birds. I remember asking Jeff about the nest and he telling me he has never seen an eagle there. I haven't, has the BLM folks? What basis do they have that proves it is an active nest?

 

Dormant golden eagle nests are not a fact of life. Golden eagles have several nests in which the alternate the use of year over year. If they decided to use one of the nests that is near the climbing then it is likely no one would know it until the nest has already failed. A golden eagle (unlike a peregrine) will flush from its nest before most climbers ever saw it. In the case of trout creek a female would very likely leave the nest as a group of climbers got to the base of the uphill trail. The eagle will not come back until the climbers have left. If they climb for more than a couple of hours the nest could easily fail. This has happened at China Bend for several years now, and likely has been happening at Trout Creek. This is why golden eagles need a much larger closure area than peregrines.

 

The closure does appear warranted, but is maybe a bit excessive since the birds would almost certainly fledge by early July. I found a dead eagle at the base of the crag several years ago but I dont know what the circumstances of that was.

 

I think the climbing community should be a little careful about an outright battle against any type of closure since it is not really constructive.

[jfs1978]

Alasdair, a link to this data would be very interesting. Golden Eagle habitat and nesting data is difficult to find. I'll support legitimate protection of habitat but I have a problem with the BLM's approach to this - initially refusing to release relevant data, dragging their feet when they do, not allowing public input, and not performing proper environmental assessments.

 

Jan. 25th letter from the BLM: "Currently, we are gathering information to fully understand the situation relative to protecting the Frog Springs territory, and therefore do not have a scheduled time line for the environmental analysis process. We will contact you when we know more about our timeline and management approach."

 

A week later and we get a mandated closure.

 

Not the kind of "management" I like to see from our public agencies.

[Alasdair]

I don't have any link, but I have worked around active nests for the last two years and have been to a whole lot of nests including ones that have chicks in them. The information I posted is from talking to the biologists that work directly with the birds, and is what I have personally observed also. I am sure this info is out there, but it is likely a doctorate thesis buried in the science library of some university.

[mtep]

Tyler, lots of people who feel very strongly about this issue know Cassandra personally. (myself not includd) How nice a person she is changes nothing about the fact that the BLM acted extremely unprofessionally in their handling of this matter. We're all nice people in some way and we all screw up in others. Somebody screwed this up good.

[Alasdair]

Unfortunately right now is when the crag needs to be closed for golden eagles. Waiting for a long drawn out review process could potentially cause the nest to fail again this year. Just keep in mind that they may not have had a choice on this one. The vast majority of people who work for these agencies started working for them because they love outdoor recreation just like you. They get lots of nasty letters from people on both sides of every issue and that is kind of sad. Keep in mind that as much as you may think that climbing is the most important activity in this area, there are a whole lot more people who think that birds are more important. In the United States the second most common hobby listed among the population is birding, just after photography which is number one. It would be good for climbers to remember this.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Alasdair

[stevetimetravlr]

Wow, birding is the second most popular hobby? Then allot of those people are going to be very upset to learn that there is a windfarm going in near to Trout Creek where they have bee issued Golden Eagle kill permits, up to 3 Eagles Kills over the next few years. and the closure of Trout Creek is in direct correlation to this.

[mtep]

Not to mention the fact that climbing is likely the least invasive form of recreation that goes on in the area. Nobody has ever climbed or rapped within meters of the potential nest site and hunters regularly shoot above and below it annually. Not to mention the local kids who show up and trundle rocks from the top of the crag.

 

If the science justifies a closure that's fine, I'll support that. What I can't support is a closure with no science presented to us. Jeff shared the letter he got from the BLM with me last weekend at the crag and their data was laughable. To enact a closure literally a week later based solely on what they shared with us strikes me as a mistake. Especially in the context of the utter lack of transparency on the part of BLM leading up to this decision. Examples:

 

Blake Herrington was only able to communicate with them after calling and leaving message after message over many days. They told him basically that they didn't have a plan yet and were working on it.

 

They took weeks to put together a small amount of data that didn't really demonstrate a whole heck of a lot, told us in the same communication that they were still trying to put together their plan, and closed the crag a week later.

 

This wouldn't have even been on anyone's radar if climbers hadn't heard about it 2nd hand in the first place. In that case we heard "Trout Creek is going to be shut down." Not "we're thinking about a seasonal eagle closure."

 

We pay these peoples' salaries! They exist to inform us as to the best way to use our lands. They aren't informing us. They're telling us. Like I said, I have no problem closing Trout. (nobody thinks that the crag should be closed if it makes sense to the longevity of the Golden Eagle population) The reason I'm frustrated, and I suspect that this is the case with the majority of folks that climb there, is that the BLM has failed to convince us that what they're doing is a good idea. Not even. They haven't even really tried!

[el jefe]

Unfortunately right now is when the crag needs to be closed for golden eagles. Waiting for a long drawn out review process could potentially cause the nest to fail again this year. Just keep in mind that they may not have had a choice on this one. The vast majority of people who work for these agencies started working for them because they love outdoor recreation just like you. They get lots of nasty letters from people on both sides of every issue and that is kind of sad. Keep in mind that as much as you may think that climbing is the most important activity in this area, there are a whole lot more people who think that birds are more important. In the United States the second most common hobby listed among the population is birding, just after photography which is number one. It would be good for climbers to remember this.

 

if right now is when the crag needs to be closed for golden eagles, then why not have a public forum and make the case? if your argument is sound and you have the facts to back it up, then why make the decision behind closed doors? you may very well be right about the necessity and timing of the closure, Alasdair, but sneaky way this deal went down undermines the credibility of the BLM and the people who work there.

[JosephH]

Wow, birding is the second most popular hobby? Then allot of those people are going to be very upset to learn that there is a windfarm going in near to Trout Creek where they have bee issued Golden Eagle kill permits, up to 3 Eagles Kills over the next few years. and the closure of Trout Creek is in direct correlation to this.

Yeah, there are a lot of people upset over raptor wind farm kills, but then wind energy isn't 'free' in any sense of the word when it comes to bats and raptors. For the NW to produce wind energy there will always be a toll on raptors. So are climbers being asked to pay a 'price' for that? Indirectly, but u-betcha, absolutely.

 

Given the rapid growth of wind farms in OR and WA the number of raptor kills has gone way, way up in total numbers in the NW. To compensate, especially given the range of eagles, those wind farm losses translate to pressure on managers to be diligent in managing protections wherever else they can.

 

It impacts climbers in another way as well. Raptor biologists who would normally be available for monitoring climbing sites are instead now buried up to their ears processing the environmental impact statements (EIS) associated with proposed wind farm applications and running kill and kill abatement studies on existing farms. Because of that, they can't monitor climbing sites with anywhere near the frequency they otherwise would prior to the wind farms.

 

That's further compounded in the federal case simply by the amount of land under BLM and FS management here out west relative to the biologists they have available to do the required work. That's why the Feds are far more likely to do broader blanket, static, and unmonitored raptor closures with the Feb 1st-Aug 31st dates typical in federal closures throughout the west. My guess is in this case they actually had every intent of doing the the studies and analysis, but in the end couldn't line up the requisite resources to actually do them so just moved forward with the closure due to the management pressure from the wind farm kills.

 

The fact western BLM and FS managers are working with limited biology resources is all the more reason to not get adversarial with them, but rather try to establish a working relationship with them and especially their raptor biologists. See if you can get out and go monitoring with them and learn where the traditional eagle nests in the vicinity of Trout are. Build that relationship and you at least have a shot of monitoring the closure and getting early opens if they don't nest, or once the chicks have fledged if they have.

 

It's a raw deal, but given steady climbing out at Trout is a relatively recent, but fast growing, phenom no one should be surprised it's now hit BLM's radar given its proximity to Smith with its climbing and raptor closures. My take on it is if you guys have any relationship with Cassandra at all you should do everything possible to build on that and try to establish your own monitoring out there with whatever folks are willing and available. The BLM out west here isn't known for working closely with climbers outside of a few select locales like Red Rock where they have no choice, but I'd strongly suggest you give working with them a shot because if you take an antagonistic stance with them they'll just lock it up with a static closure and your only recourse will be in federal court and I can guarantee that avenue will go absolutely nowhere in a hurry.

 

Even with the AF fully engaged you're better off not pissing them off as the AF is engaged with the BLM across the west and those BLM managers have email. And who knows, maybe you can set some cooperative precedents with them out at Trout. Bummer the place is out of the closet now, but this sort of thing naturally happens when a crag suddenly becomes as highly publicized and popular as fast as Trout has.

 

Like you know anything about closures. You have not done squat in regards to Beacon. Only complain about the complainers.

That's because 'complainers', who choose to remain deliberately ignorant on the issue, and who adopt highly adversarial, victim-based stances and approaches to 'dealing' with closures are both entirely counterproductive and butt stupid. And hell, steady breaches of the closure, endlessly misrepresenting facts, and relentless shit-talking of agency personnel was a real winner at Beacon. And that was at a state park where access to WSP and WDFW personnel have been entirely open all along.

 

Federal agency personnel aren't nearly so accessible, open, or responsive as the state agencies of record at Beacon and the BLM and FS also have far broader leeway to act as they see fit in the interests of their charters with less effective oversight than state agencies. That's because the recourse through federal courts are expensive, arduous, and largely unproductive for something like climbing, particularly when Audubon drops in to all those federal proceedings.

 

In other words, by all means, you Trout folks can certainly adopt the 'Beacon' approach to dealing with this closure; but then you should just skip the website, organizing, and politics and just move right onto the closure breaches, shit-talking Cassandra & Co., and endless bitching. That way, anyone who comes along later who might want to try to do something about the closure will basically be behind the curve and working against the tide from the onset.

[jonathan schrock]

Thanks for the comments JosephH. Probably some good advice/ideas in there. We may indeed be backed into a corner to an extent. The whole deal sucks. Really sucks. Hopefully there are SOME folks at the BLM who are still willing to consider collaboration on this. We are willing...heck, we WANT to be involved... but have thus far received little to no response. This is the main frustration.

 

Despite the comments about how nice and upstanding some of the personnel at the BLM office may be...I am thus far not at all impressed with their handling of this issue. It certainly does not build any amount of trust or hope for future, more responsible and professional approaches to other challenges.

 

It's incredibly disappointing and frustrating.

[JosephH]

Thanks for the comments JosephH. Probably some good advice/ideas in there. We may indeed be backed into a corner to an extent. The whole deal sucks. Really sucks. Hopefully there are SOME folks at the BLM who are still willing to consider collaboration on this. We are willing...heck, we WANT to be involved... but have thus far received little to no response. This is the main frustration.

 

Despite the comments about how nice and upstanding some of the personnel at the BLM office may be...I am thus far not at all impressed with their handling of this issue. It certainly does not build any amount of trust or hope for future, more responsible and professional approaches to other challenges.

 

It's incredibly disappointing and frustrating.

Yeah, I agree, it's totally frustrating. But with the BLM / FS you're dealing with a mixed bag of personnel of various personal political persuasions and differing experiences dealing with a variety of adversarial and antagonistic user groups. You're also dealing with long institutional histories of federal agencies acting unilaterally without a lot of oversight up until recent decades.

 

Not great as you say, but the choices remain the same regardless - either you, a) learn what you can and work with the hand you're dealt, b) walk away and climb elsewhere during the closure, or c) become a perpetually wailing victim.

 

Personally, I'd recommend either a) or b), but to each his own.

[pink]

it's all about the birds unless there is money to be made, makes sense to me climbing is a selfish activity that creates little or no commerce. maybe more bolts r the answer, how many sport crags get shut down due 2 raptor nesting?

[JosephH]

sucky......that nest is so dormant, I loveit when they close climbing areas for imaginary birds. I remember asking Jeff about the nest and he telling me he has never seen an eagle there. I haven't, has the BLM folks? What basis do they have that proves it is an active nest?

Just saw this post up thread - where exactly is this nest relative to Trout and is it known to be an eagle nest (as opposed to say a hawk)? If that nest is the reason for the closure then that would certainly make monitoring of the place easy enough to determine if a nesting pair chooses to use it or not this year.

[kevbone]

 

It's incredibly disappointing and frustrating.

 

Welcome to the last 15 years at Beacon Rock! I know how you feel.

[jonathan schrock]

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