The True nature of the DFA

[RuMR]

A0 bolt --> aid

 

Chipping (to make it easier) --> aid

 

Protection bolt --> still gotta pull on the *natural* line

 

so i guess i would say the A0 bolt is equal to chipping for ease of climbing; although aesthetically its not... but that's the funny thing about aesthetics...its subjective and in each persons own mind. Main reason i'm an engineer and not an architect.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Out of respect never bolt a gear line without the 1st ascentionists consent is my thoguhts.... It only degrades their valid ascent

[JayB]

quote:

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Originally posted by chucK:

My question is genuine. Assuming you accept bolting as legitimate, which I think I do (I certainly do implicitly accept them when clipping them), why do we draw the line so easily with chipping? Psychological aid versus physical aid? Why is one acceptable and the other not?

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Okey-dokey - I get it now.

 

Chuck:

 

I really wasn't trying to be hostile there or attribute any sinister motives to you - although I recognize that from your vantage point it might have seemed that way. I just wanted to figure out what your real question was there - which now seems obvious after reading your post again. Just chalk it up to some Friday afternoon reading comprehension issues on my part.

 

I think it's a valid question about chipping, and I too look forward to hearing what folks have to say on this one.

[Cpt.Caveman]

were in spray now hehhe

[RuMR]

Chuck

WHoops...forgot to answer your first question regarding why changing the physical difficulty isn't the same as the danger level...

 

This is similar to the aesthetic issue in that its all relative to the individual. You probably run it out a whole lot more on easy (this is relative to your ability) than on hard (also relative) terrain, right?

 

So a 5.12 or 5.13 climber could very easily take the stance that 10 bolts or 1 bolt or no bolts will not impact the difficulty of a 5.8 line, but you can bet your bottom dollar he'd want those bolts (at least enough to keep him off the deck) if he was operating near his own personal limit. I don't think its fair to say that protection bolts make a route easier or harder as a blanket statement. In order to say that, it depends on the climber and the climb. Moot question and it again boils down to an aesthetics issue and an impact one. In my mind, those are more reasonable arguments for or against bolting than saying its like chipping because it makes the route easier.

[richard_noggin]

A-0 is usually done to connect cracks and unclimable face. the question is how much aid and is the crack or face climbing stellar It's the FA'ist call and his rep is the one on the line

Harding and Robbins comes to mind.

Also consider this if a wall has estblished crack climbs and you squezz in sport routes your ask'in for trouble,sometimes there needs to be a little elbow room.Some people dis the sports park type of sport climbing ,what it is ,is what it is, just accept it.

[richard_noggin]

BTW DFA is way cool and I would tie in with him anytime because I know it would be a killer fun day.

Your kick'in a dead horse here try'in to gang bang DFA If he can climb half as good as he can spray I would not even be able to TR his shit.

Here's to the good doctor

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Good cripes, man; careful with that kind of pro-DFA talk, you're liable to get run outta here!

 

A few of the Doctor's thoughts on chipping:

 

Someone noted up there that the addition of aid bolts is frequently to connect freeable/protectable crack-type features. As it is with chipped holds. Indeed, the bulk of chipped routes you encounter use one or two chipped holds to connect an otherwise uninterrupted string of climbable features.

 

Also, regarding that a chipped hold is "aid," DFA feels that this is an incorrect assertion. While a chipped hold does indeed allow you to pass over previously blank rock, it is not the same as a point of aid, which allows you to use something other than your body and rock to move up with. Hanging in your harness from a daisy chain clipped to a bolt is far easier than hanging from a half-pad, two-finger pocket. This is not to say that chipping is thus OK, it is simply to say that climbing a chipped route is still going to take a lot of burl. As posited in the originally quoted post in this thread, DFA thinks "artificial free" is a more accurate descriptor.

 

There was also a point made by the much-maligned bolt-slinger Ryan Lawson that cleaning a route does far more damage than chipping a hold. In preparing a route, especially at Smith, one could trundle off fifty pounds of rock (obviously this varies by route), all of which goes crashing into the vegetation at the base. Chipping a hold, on the other hand, removes perhaps a tablespoon or two of rock. Clearly, however, chipping is more of an ethical than a practical issue for most people, so the above means little, however, it is still food for thought.