Class Warfare, Heartland USA,: Wisconsin

[Nitrox]

well, unions might be stupid as you say, but at least they don't appear dumb

 

I didn't say they were stupid, just not in the best interest of the country. They are donating just like the evil Koch brothers that j_b rails against daily.

 

 

[j_b]

so, how do these unions dollars compare to the $100s million given by corporations and the wealthy to regressive candidates?

[prole]

They are donating just like the evil Koch brothers that j_b rails against daily.

 

WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY WE MUST CRUSH THOSE UNIONS!!!

[j_b]

unions represent the interests of the middle class. The Koch brothers represent the plutocracy. Can you tell the difference?

[j_b]

The Republican Strategy

by Robert Reich

 

The Republican strategy is to split the vast middle and working class – pitting unionized workers against non-unionized, public-sector workers against non-public, older workers within sight of Medicare and Social Security against younger workers who don’t believe these programs will be there for them, and the poor against the working middle class.

 

By splitting working America along these lines, Republicans want Americans to believe that we can no longer afford to do what we need to do as a nation. They hope to deflect attention from the increasing share of total income and wealth going to the richest 1 percent while the jobs and wages of everyone else languish.

 

Republicans would rather no one notice their campaign to shrink the pie even further with additional tax cuts for the rich – making the Bush tax cuts permanent, further reducing the estate tax, and allowing the wealthy to shift ever more of their income into capital gains taxed at 15 percent.

 

more: Divide and Conquer

[tvashtarkatena]

Nice apotheosis-bathed attempted re-framing of the conflict between broad and narrow wealth distribution. Best interests of the country? That's whatever you think sparkles the most.

 

Baby talk aside, the state union thing pits democracy against social justice. Having public unions share economic pain is a legitimate position, removing their collective voice violates the principles in our first and most important amendment. The absent lawmakers are pitting their right to protest against voter's right to be represented by those they elected.

 

 

[Nitrox]

so, how do these unions dollars compare to the $100s million given by corporations and the wealthy to regressive candidates?

 

Well, a Union can deliver a hell of a lot more votes than any millionaire per dollar spent.

 

 

[prole]

Why do you keep capitalizing the word "union"? Where is EffDubya when you need him?

[Nitrox]

unions represent the interests of the middle class. The Koch brothers represent the plutocracy. Can you tell the difference?

 

Strange, I'm middle class and every time the local government employees get a raise I have to pay for it. There was a school district budgetary shortfall two years ago (they claimed a book keeping error) and my property taxes went up significantly. Neither represent my interests.

 

 

[Nitrox]

Nice apotheosis-bathed attempted re-framing of the conflict between broad and narrow wealth distribution. Best interests of the country? That's whatever you think sparkles the most.

 

Baby talk aside, the state union thing pits democracy against social justice. Having public unions share economic pain is a legitimate position, removing their collective voice violates the principles in our first and most important amendment. The absent lawmakers are pitting their right to protest against voter's right to be represented by those they elected.

 

 

The ability to strong arm the state for medical and pension contributions is now a first amendment right? Ummmm, riiiiiiiiiight.

 

 

 

[prole]

Because medical and pension benefits are too much to ask for if you're teaching my kids!!

[tvashtarkatena]

Nice apotheosis-bathed attempted re-framing of the conflict between broad and narrow wealth distribution. Best interests of the country? That's whatever you think sparkles the most.

 

Baby talk aside, the state union thing pits democracy against social justice. Having public unions share economic pain is a legitimate position, removing their collective voice violates the principles in our first and most important amendment. The absent lawmakers are pitting their right to protest against voter's right to be represented by those they elected.

 

 

The ability to strong arm the state for medical and pension contributions is now a first amendment right? Ummmm, riiiiiiiiiight.

 

 

 

Being on the wrong end of a negotiation is a bit like being banned, no? NO FAIR!!!!

 

Bottom line is that state employees negotiated and won very reasonable compensation. Only a cube-zealot would characterize it as 'strong arming'.

 

Now workers have resorted to strike and protest in a reasonable response to an attack on the union's very existence (a silenced union is one in name only).

 

STRONG ARMING!!!!

 

'Persecution' is the first propaganda tool a Tightie reaches for. Nobody whines like a bully getting a much begged for slaparound.

 

 

[j_b]

unions represent the interests of the middle class. The Koch brothers represent the plutocracy. Can you tell the difference?

Strange, I'm middle class and every time the local government employees get a raise I have to pay for it. There was a school district budgetary shortfall two years ago (they claimed a book keeping error) and my property taxes went up significantly. Neither represent my interests.

 

nothing is keeping you from moving to Somalia where you won't pay taxes and won't be able to leech your way off taxpayer funded services and infrastructure.

[prole]

America: Where society doesn't extend any further than my front bumper.

[JayB]

Arguing that some abstract definition of rank or merit should entitle someone to a pre-determined socio-economic status in society pretty much puts you in the same camp as social conservatives...

 

You're totally right. First and foremost, socio-economic status in society should be predetermined by hereditary birth lottery.

 

Even if it were possible to arrange reality so that everything from IQ to a loving, stable home, to looks and talent were completely normalized by some arbitrary formula - the aggregated choices of individuals responding to their own needs and desires would result in a situation in which some people in some occupations earned dramatically more than others. And this distribution would constantly be changing. The distribution at any particular time, and the changes from that point will always be perceived as unfair relative to some arbitrary standard or merit or virtue.

 

I'm sure that the buggy whip and candle-stick makers felt that society owed them a certain standard of living, and thought that the demand-driven redistribution of income to people in the light-bulb and auto industries was a terrible injustice that warranted an indefinite public commitment to maintaining their incomes with taxes paid by others. Thankfully there wasn't, and the declining wages and jobs in the candle-stick sector sent a useful signal to others that society didn't have much use for what they were making, and they moved on to other occupations where they were making a good or service that people actually wanted or needed.

 

 

[prole]

So you're against hereditary inheritance?

[Nitrox]

unions represent the interests of the middle class. The Koch brothers represent the plutocracy. Can you tell the difference?

Strange, I'm middle class and every time the local government employees get a raise I have to pay for it. There was a school district budgetary shortfall two years ago (they claimed a book keeping error) and my property taxes went up significantly. Neither represent my interests.

 

nothing is keeping you from moving to Somalia where you won't pay taxes and won't be able to leech your way off taxpayer funded services and infrastructure.

 

Well I pay the taxes so that doesn't exactly make me a leech now does it?

 

 

[j_b]

America: Where society doesn't extend any further than my front bumper.

 

until they need to pool their resources with the community, hypocrites. How does Nitrox drive to his compound? On roads he paid for by himself, perhaps? sheesh.

[Nitrox]

Nice apotheosis-bathed attempted re-framing of the conflict between broad and narrow wealth distribution. Best interests of the country? That's whatever you think sparkles the most.

 

Baby talk aside, the state union thing pits democracy against social justice. Having public unions share economic pain is a legitimate position, removing their collective voice violates the principles in our first and most important amendment. The absent lawmakers are pitting their right to protest against voter's right to be represented by those they elected.

 

 

The ability to strong arm the state for medical and pension contributions is now a first amendment right? Ummmm, riiiiiiiiiight.

 

 

 

Being on the wrong end of a negotiation is a bit like being banned, no? NO FAIR!!!!

 

Bottom line is that state employees negotiated and won very reasonable compensation. Only a cube-zealot would characterize it as 'strong arming'.

 

Now workers have resorted to strike and protest in a reasonable response to an attack on the union's very existence (a silenced union is one in name only).

 

STRONG ARMING!!!!

 

'Persecution' is the first propaganda tool a Tightie reaches for. Nobody whines like a bully getting a much begged for slaparound.

 

 

Isn't the union claiming they are being unfairly targeted (persecuted) by the evil Republicans? In this case the employees didn't strike, they all called in sick and violated the terms of their employment.

 

 

[j_b]

nothing is keeping you from moving to Somalia where you won't pay taxes and won't be able to leech your way off taxpayer funded services and infrastructure.

 

Well I pay the taxes so that doesn't exactly make me a leech now does it?

 

tell me where you live and if it's in a rural area, you are likely being subsidized.

 

 

[Nitrox]

America: Where society doesn't extend any further than my front bumper.

 

until they need to pool their resources with the community, hypocrites. How does Nitrox drive to his compound? On roads he paid for by himself, perhaps? sheesh.

 

There's a difference between paying state employees and over paying state employees because they hold power over the local or state government. You're stuck trying to exaggerate my position because you know I'm right.

 

 

 

 

[Nitrox]

nothing is keeping you from moving to Somalia where you won't pay taxes and won't be able to leech your way off taxpayer funded services and infrastructure.

 

Well I pay the taxes so that doesn't exactly make me a leech now does it?

 

tell me where you live and if it's in a rural area, you are likely being subsidized.

 

 

Its in my profile, dumbass.

 

 

[j_b]

There's a difference between paying state employees and over paying state employees because they hold power over the local or state government. You're stuck trying to exaggerate my position because you know I'm right.

 

You are lying. Public employees earn less than private sector employees. There is no alternative but to pay people a living wage.

[Crux]

Isn't the union claiming they are being unfairly targeted (persecuted) by the evil Republicans? In this case the employees didn't strike, they all called in sick and violated the terms of their employment.

The way you are violating the terms of your employment now?

Edited February 22, 2011 by Crux

[j_b]

tell me where you live and if it's in a rural area, you are likely being subsidized.

Its in my profile, dumbass.

 

So your services and infrastructure are most probably being subsidized. And here you are trying to deny public workers a fair wage when they already get paid less than private sector workers. What an hypocritical blowhard you make.