Kimmo Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 btw, i did ask you why the "muslims" in the US are seemingly (pew poll) "peaceful" and critical of violence in general. also, i asked you what your pew poll link was meant to indicate, but didn't get a response.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 btw the Tamil tigers who committed numerous suicide bombings over the last 30 years follow the Hindu religion. The kamikaze of WW2 were Shintoist or Buddhist. i whole-heartedly, unequivocally and completely disagree with the above assertion regarding kamikaze being buddhist. their actions (and probably lives) had nothing NOTHING to do with buddhism. i'd also wager that most "christians" have very little in common with the teachings of jesus. and a guess: islam doesn't teach peeps to blow up civilians and their structures. Buddhism was imported to Japan from China as a technique to improve sword fighting. It eventually evolved in the Zen, which employs a variety of art forms today - that still includes sword fighting. Still, discussing what religions kamakazes subscribed fairly constitutes a new level of idiocy, even for this forum. That's like discussing the religious breakdown of those involved DD Day. It was war, people followed orders, hero mystique was manufactured to help them do so, and religion simply didn't figure very largely into the scheme of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 btw the Tamil tigers who committed numerous suicide bombings over the last 30 years follow the Hindu religion. The kamikaze of WW2 were Shintoist or Buddhist. The Tamil movement was primarily secular and political in nature. What drives the need to color every human endeavor with a religious palette is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 The way to reform and the way forward, regardless of country or religion, is secular democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Yeah, we should work on getting some more of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Buddhism was imported to Japan from China as a technique to improve sword fighting. It eventually evolved in the Zen, which employs a variety of art forms today - that still includes sword fighting. and once it had divorced itself from the most basic of the buddha's teachings, it became oxymoronic to call it "buddhism". Buddhism at its core is about non-violence: in speech, in action, in thought, etc. (unless i missed something!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Yeah, we should work on getting some more of that. Historically, the Cryptofascists have been defeated time and time again: They lost on slavery, women's rights, minority rights, blocking public education, prayer in schools, and teaching evolution. Now they're gradually but steadily losing on gay rights and the drug war. Still, they've managed to dumb down science education to the point of uselessness in some areas, most notably the South, of course. They did manage to insinuate themselves into the pledge and our currency, with little effect other than to insult those of us who have our own beliefs, but we'll live. The real threat nowadays is to women over abortion (just the beginning, girls!) and to public education and public funding. School vouchers and faith based funding violates the establishment clause, thus threatening the freedom of everyone's beliefs. The tolerance for illegal evangelism in the military is also a dangerous problem. We've beaten the Christian Right back into its medieval corner in defense of our hard-won secular democracy many times in the past, but we'll need to keep their repressive cult beliefs out of our secular government for the duration. They're not going away...ever. In the end, they'll lose on women, gays, and the drug war. The majority of the public, once it understands the true nature of the Christian Right agenda, finds that agenda an abhorrent antithesis of our most closely held secular principles - the Bill of Rights. Understandably so: the Christian Right openly disregards the Bill of Rights for 'God's Law'. Historically, Americans have chosen the Bill of Rights over Christian Sharia. One final battle, started during confederation, still being waged today, remains: economic equality/concentration of wealth. The Christian Right is solidly on the side of asset stripping wealth concentrators, but the battle involves virtually everyone. Its outcome remains to be seen, if in fact it ever comes to end at all. Edited February 4, 2011 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 btw the Tamil tigers who committed numerous suicide bombings over the last 30 years follow the Hindu religion. The kamikaze of WW2 were Shintoist or Buddhist. The Tamil movement was primarily secular and political in nature. What drives the need to color every human endeavor with a religious palette is beyond me. Only a first class idiot would think that is what I am doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Buddhism was imported to Japan from China as a technique to improve sword fighting. It eventually evolved in the Zen, which employs a variety of art forms today - that still includes sword fighting. and once it had divorced itself from the most basic of the buddha's teachings, it became oxymoronic to call it "buddhism". Buddhism at its core is about non-violence: in speech, in action, in thought, etc. (unless i missed something!) various people always claim to know what is the real meaning of religious thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Buddhism was imported to Japan from China as a technique to improve sword fighting. It eventually evolved in the Zen, which employs a variety of art forms today - that still includes sword fighting. and once it had divorced itself from the most basic of the buddha's teachings, it became oxymoronic to call it "buddhism". Buddhism at its core is about non-violence: in speech, in action, in thought, etc. (unless i missed something!) various people always claim to know what is the real meaning of religious thought. sure, but sometimes specifics are easier to decipher than at other times. but perhaps you have information about gautama teaching something besides non-violence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 the thing about buddhism that makes it a little more clear in its intent is the fact the fellow taught openly for 45 years, leaving behind a rather solid body of work not shrouded in mystery and woowoo, like christianity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Like any old, popular philosophy or religion, Buddhism has evolved into many, many forms. Box it into a one size fits all and ignore its dynamic and ongoing evolution if that's easier for you...hey, works for most folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 No, I don't but that isn't the point. Moderate Muslims claim that Muslim fundamentalists do not represent the teaching of Islam in any way, although I am no more able to assess whether that's true than to understand how someone claiming to be Buddhist could have been a kamikaze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 You must find it equally hard to believe that anyone claiming to be a Christian is a soldier...but that is in fact, the norm. People violate their religious tenets all the time for a lot of reasons. Adhering to them under all circumstances is fantastically rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Many Christians on the progressive left would vigorously disagree. It is in fact, I suspect probable, that without religious folks, the US progressive movement would have been dead in the water for over 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Well, since fewer than 20% of the country describe themselves as secular, it's a foregone conclusion that any movement does well to include believers. Kind of like stating that atmospheric oxygen is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 and you should have thought about that before you stated that being a soldier was the norm for a Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Reading Comprehension Alert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 "You must find it equally hard to believe that anyone claiming to be a Christian is a soldier...but that is in fact, the norm." arguing in bad faith Alert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 You must find it equally hard to believe that anyone claiming to be a Christian is a soldier...but that is in fact, the norm. "claiming" to be anything has no significance. one is defined by one's actions. heck, i could claim to be the International Director of the ACLU, but the claim itself has no significance (except as a testament to my mental condition). same with "religion": one can claim to be anything they like, but if their actions violate every priciple taught by the progenitor of that particular body of teachings, then what does the claim really mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Yup, a majority of soldiers self identify as Christians of some sort - same as the citizenry in general. A majority of Christians do not, however, self identify as soldiers. You'd do well to slow down your reading a bit...or just calm down in general. @Kimmo: No additional testament to your mental condition is required Edited February 4, 2011 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 You said the norm is that "anyone claiming to be Christian is a soldier". No matter which way you'd like to spin now or project your state of mind onto me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) SENTENCE FRAGMENT ALERT! Please take either an English class or a sedative. TIA. Edited February 4, 2011 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 spare us your arguing in bad faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 You win, j_b. (the only way to shut this fucking kook up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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