Pudding Time

[Dru]

Sometimes bolts get damaged just because of infighting between climbers - like "He dissed me so I will go out and wreck one of his routes." Ho hum.

 

I mean, if someone wanted to be "ethical", they would remove (Chop) the bolts and eliminate the unsightly metal, right. Flattening hangers and leaving them in place is a pretty dumb way to protest bolting imho. It leaves all the negative aspects of the bolt (visual impact, rock damage) in place and removes the positive (use as protection)...kind of like chipping huge jug holds on a chipped climb to protest chipping.

[This message has been edited by Dru (edited 08-20-2001).]

[Cpt.Caveman]

Could be right. I guess it is all opinionated either way..

[Paul_detrick]

The frist couple of bolts are gone, its hard to tell which bolts are left( 4 vs 6), I could see two that were smashed and could not see the top. Mitch you should finish the job, its no good like it is, unless you want to put the bolts back.(just kidding). I saw the man in the painters suit yesterday,I should have asked him if he know anything,but I think he would set it right.

Paul

[LUCKY]

Get a grip.

[This message has been edited by LUCKY (edited 08-21-2001).]

[LUCKY]

Originally posted by LUCKY:

Sounds like the Whipsaw smashing of a few years ago. A fellow climber came close to a deck fall caused from that bolt smashing.

What are the bolt smashers doing? Laying

traps for fellow climbers? If found out to be setting traps you could be found liable.

We all live Downstream.

[Retrosaurus]

Peter Puget,

Thanks for your clear, well studied thoughts on top-roping. I have to agree 100%. A willingness to top-rope instead of fixing gear displays a grace and humility that is rarely seen in climbing.

Mitch

[slaphappy]

I think the rest of the smashed hangers should be removed and all the bolts should be replaced in their original holes or as close as possible. This is the way the original first ascent was done.

Mitch, certainly don't want to discredit your accomplishments, but I heard your gear was placed on rappel.(?) If this is true, it should make a difference to the safety and feasability of a gear lead. Why didn't you do it first?

As far as a TR goes, this could be OK, but what about the impact to the plant life on the top of the mesa? Isn't more foot-traffic up there one of the things we're trying to avoid? Unlike Red M&M's, There isn't a solid (significantly easier) classic sharing the same anchors.

[This message has been edited by slaphappy (edited 08-21-2001).]

[Retrosaurus]

Slappy,

The route that you are thinking of is Crossing the Deleware With Your Pants Down, on Sunshine Wall (1st crack right of Red M&Ms) which is a lot harder and a lot more difficult to protect. I placed the gear on Crossing on rappel and it was still terrible; worst of course at the crux.

SBD Positive/Pudding Time is not that way at all. All gear was placed on lead and the climb was quite well-protected. Aside from the fooling around at the start (bouldering up and down the first 8 or 10 feet) that it took to get really good gear in it is very straight forward. That being said, it really would not bother me too much if the first bolt was replaced. But it really is not necessary to climb the route safely. And certainly none of the others are.

Are you promoting the idea that it is ok to bolt cracks if you get there first? I hope not.

Mitch

[slaphappy]

I stand corrected. Before I speculate further I would need to refresh my memory on the "crack" in question. I am not OKing the bolting of a significant crack. My only goal is to stop the destruction of "the aesthetic at the time of the first ascent". Many peoples opinions differ and the "firsts" in this case clearly saw it otherwise.