Maine-iac Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I think it is safe to say if somebody gets hurt in the outdoors they stand a better chance of survival/return to normal life if somebody that they are with, or themselves, is medically trained. Also, in everyday life people do stupid things and first responders make the difference. So, how much first aid knowledge do you have? I'm a WEMT-B but am in a paramedic program currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I doesn't matter one's level of medical training if they don't have the tools to do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Situational awareness is equally important as having the right tools. Sure a doctor or nurse is not going to open a field cath. lab, but they should understand the situation a little better than somebody with minimal training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) Currently practicing EMT with a bunch of additional certifications (ITLS, etc) and also WFR. My standard first aid kit for most backcountry climbing days is a set of gloves, 1 roll of kling gauze, a 5"x9" trauma pad, and a ziploc full of ibuprofen. Total weight: 2 oz. I have about 12' of gaffer tape wrapped around my trekking pole. Everything else can be improvised... Edited January 24, 2011 by Jon H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BASE697 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I recently finished a paramedic program and a friend asked me what I thought was important in the backcountry. I just told him stop the bleeding, splint the fractures and get help. Most of what we'll encounter in the field will be trauma and environmental injuries and rarely will our interventions go beyond that of a BLS provider. I agree that the situational awareness that comes with training and experience can make taking care of someone easier and more efficient and although the tools are important, it's the knowledge of what you want to accomplish with those tools that can help you provide good treatment with limited equipment. Obviously we won't intubate with a camelback hose but we can splint, make a tourniquet perform other skills with many items at our disposal. Hell, just making sure no one moves the person, and that they don't move, could be the greatest thing one could do in the setting of a severe spinal injury. Just thinking of tools you absolutely need for the field, lugging around a liter of ringers definitely goes against the light and fast ethic , the only med I can think is an Epi pen if your partner or you have an allergy. Pain meds are nice but not ultimately life saving. I could see a IV cath for a flutter valve being useful but rare. I had a friend that had to dart a buddies chest down in Moab once. I would think that the medics in Iraq and Afghanistan probably have the best lessons that are applicable to a situation like the backcountry. Just my thoughts... Take care, Gabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I agree that if you have the knowledge you can do a lot with a little. I think a lot of us, including me, too often go into the backcountry without any sort of first aid equipment. Something like Jon H's lightweight kit can go a long way in a lot of situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 luckily, if you are seriously wounded in the woods w/ me i generally will have either a) enough smokes to tide you over 'till the chopper appears or b) suitable strength to smash your skull in w/ a large rock and End the Pain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastBastard Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I've got an expired WFR, and I'm currently in vet school. My first aid kit usually consists of: some gauze pads, some stretchy bandage material, a few band-aids/tape for things like blisters, some codeine/paracetamol and ibuprofen. like somebody else said, my priorities are stopping the bleeding, stabilizing a fx, stabilizing the patient as best I can and getting them out of there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Just my 2 cents -- From past experiences fixing broken people, I've found the items most useful to me have been (in no particular order): Something to write with and write on, perhaps with a pre-filled soap-style note scribbled on there. A bunch of glove pairs to give to people to assist with patient assessment, and for when you need to get stuff out of your bag after your first pair is covered in blood. Also, if you have multiple patients, you have to protect them from each other, which is extremely hard to do well. Large amounts of gauze to mop up blood/stop bleeding so you can see what's going on. You don't want to give away your gear to do this. Something super light to splint with. There seems to always be at least an arm fracture or tib/fib involved in alpine falls involving crampons, etc. I'm back to carrying a sam splint in the foam frame of my pack as I don't like to give away parts of my gear to people. 3 cravats and safety pins, kling, tape, and ibuprofen (offering it to let them self-administrate). Something for the patient to sit/lie on if possible. They're often lying in snow for a really long time. Almost every single patient has been hypothermic to some degree. Again I scour the patient's pack for something before I give away anything. Usually just dump all their stuff out to see what you have to work with. WFR's pretty much the most you need when you're not expecting to be dealing with a patient, but it is damn nice for the patient to have the emt-p to administer morphine, IVs, etc. That stuff's just not around until later though. I'd rather have an _experienced_ wfr over an emt-b along if I had to choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I didn't see Outdoor Emergency Care (OEC) on your list. In any case you have to have it as a ski patroller. The very first thing you talk about in class is wearing gloves (latex or non latex) when touching somebody with an injury. You don't want what they might have, and they don't want what you might have. That's the only ordering I'd do to Cobra's list. Ski patrollers are first responders, and they perform the minimum care to get the injured person to a first aid room or ambulance with specialized equipment. If you're out in the mountains and somebody is really messed up rapid transport probably isn't an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Something for the patient to sit/lie on if possible. They're often lying in snow for a really long time. Almost every single patient has been hypothermic to some degree. Situational. At Smith you could probably just get them to lie on a pile of dogs, puffy jackets and stickclips until help arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I would make a fort out of chocolate labs for them to bivy in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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