j_b Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 You go TVash! Right on! (I don't do cheer-leading too often around here but that was some dressing down). Don't let the fuckwits get to you SO where are JayB's answers to your salient points besides the typical reptilian red-baiting? ZILCH, NADA, ZERO, .. JayB, king of the dodge, shall read his epitaph Woah - looks like there was some late night editing going on up there in some of those posts. Neat. You must be getting pretty desperate if mentioning that my post was edited offers you comfort. The claim was that once you eliminate profits - you eliminate all of the human foibles that scourge hell-holes like, say, Switzerland and wind up with harmonious utopias like....Cuba. Banish profits and greed, lusting after power, etc disappear. Thus, you actually believe in your red-baiting according to which the only alternative to the gulag is Laissez Faire anarchy. You are a fucking moron sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 am i correct in surmising from your tone that you are quite upset with JayB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 no more than usual but you are right that proponents of neo-feudalism always irritate me, especially when they claim that capitalist anarchy is the only alternative to the gulag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 That said we live in a world of scarcity and despite our best intentions we cannot avoid that fact. we live more so in a world of mis-allocation than scarcity. to correct: mis-allocation would be the diagnosis if one thinks that indeed the existing massive inter-nation and inter-individual wealth disparities are what lead to the situations mentioned above somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 no more than usual but you are right that proponents of neo-feudalism always irritate me, especially when they clam that it is the only alternative to the gulag. i think it speaks more to their myopic vision and spirituality and, as such, might elicit pity and empathy more than agitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 I'd have pity if their ilk weren't in power today. I have little tolerance for that jackboot on my neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 no more than usual but you are right that proponents of neo-feudalism always irritate me, especially when they clam that it is the only alternative to the gulag. i think it speaks more to their myopic vision and spirituality and, as such, might elicit pity and empathy more than agitation. I'll settle for empiricism. The funny thing is - there's always been much more tolerance for, protection of, and outlets for every kind of vision and spirituality and all of their manifestations in societies with market economies than the various failed utopias that claques of intellectuals have attempted to build from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 fair enough, although i'd question the reality of any jackboot on your neck. balance this vision with a list of 10 positives in your life! after all, there really is a lot to be grateful for. i do believe it's not only possible but very desirable to maintain emotional and intellectual clarity and balance when working towards justice. but that's just me, informed certainly by my own experiences, and exposure to various individuals and schools of thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 I'll settle for empiricism. The funny thing is - there's always been much more tolerance for, protection of, and outlets for every kind of vision and spirituality and all of their manifestations in societies with market economies than the various failed utopias that claques of intellectuals have attempted to build from scratch. what's funny is that in the big scheme of things, most posters here have way more in agreement than vice-versa. but then it just wouldn't make for much fun, would it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 fair enough, although i'd question the reality of any jackboot on your neck. Hellooooooo! Doesn't the conspicuous absence of a political left in the US tells you anything? Could it have anything to do with right wing thuggery? balance this vision with a list of 10 positives in your life! after all, there really is a lot to be grateful for. wtf does this have to do with this discussion? i do believe it's not only possible but very desirable to maintain emotional and intellectual clarity and balance when working towards justice. but that's just me, informed certainly by my own experiences, and exposure to various individuals and schools of thought. there needs to be a moment when you cease to be cordial with the owner of the jackboot discussed above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 no more than usual but you are right that proponents of neo-feudalism always irritate me, especially when they clam that it is the only alternative to the gulag. i think it speaks more to their myopic vision and spirituality and, as such, might elicit pity and empathy more than agitation. I'll settle for empiricism. that's rich coming from a "free market" fundamentalist like you. The funny thing is - there's always been much more tolerance for, protection of, and outlets for every kind of vision and spirituality and all of their manifestations in societies with market economies than the various failed utopias that claques of intellectuals have attempted to build from scratch. you aren't just arguing for market economies, you are arguing for capitalist anarchy and claiming the only alternatives are gulags. Don't move the goal post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 balance this vision with a list of 10 positives in your life! after all, there really is a lot to be grateful for. wtf does this have to do with this discussion? My interpretation is - really, if you travel around a bit, you, me, we're quite privileged. Doesn't say we couldn't do much better as a country, but the constant pegging-the-meter hyperbole hides whatever message you're trying to get across while everyone winces. Ya know, like fingernails on a blackboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 jb, i absolutely support your right to remain utterly and completely angry every moment of your life. i further support your right to think that this will somehow change that which you are so upset about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 My interpretation is - really, if you travel around a bit, you, me, we're quite privileged. Doesn't say we couldn't do much better as a country, but the constant pegging-the-meter hyperbole hides whatever message you're trying to get across while everyone winces. Ya know, like fingernails on a blackboard. Huh? Do you know what Hooverism is? Ever read a Dickens' novel? How fucking "shrill" are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 jb, i absolutely support your right to remain utterly and completely angry every moment of your life. You have been polishing your crystal ball? i further support your right to think that this will somehow change that which you are so upset about. because playing footsie with social Darwinists shaking the gulag rattle is going to change anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 Ever read a Dickens' novel? How fucking "shrill" are they? I know Charles Dickens, Charles Dickens is a friend of mine, you, j_b... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 balance this vision with a list of 10 positives in your life! after all, there really is a lot to be grateful for. wtf does this have to do with this discussion? My interpretation is - really, if you travel around a bit, you, me, we're quite privileged. Doesn't say we couldn't do much better as a country, but the constant pegging-the-meter hyperbole hides whatever message you're trying to get across while everyone winces. Ya know, like fingernails on a blackboard. [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 jb, i absolutely support your right to remain utterly and completely angry every moment of your life. Me too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 jb, i absolutely support your right to remain utterly and completely angry every moment of your life. You have been polishing your crystal ball? i've been polishing my laptop screen (ew!). does that count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 The funny thing is - there's always been much more tolerance for, protection of, and outlets for every kind of vision and spirituality and all of their manifestations in societies with market economies than the various failed utopias that claques of intellectuals have attempted to build from scratch. you aren't just arguing for market economies, you are arguing for capitalist anarchy and claiming the only alternatives are gulags. Don't move the goal post. crickets ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 The funny thing is - there's always been much more tolerance for, protection of, and outlets for every kind of vision and spirituality and all of their manifestations in societies with market economies than the various failed utopias that claques of intellectuals have attempted to build from scratch. you aren't just arguing for market economies, you are arguing for capitalist anarchy and claiming the only alternatives are gulags. Don't move the goal post. crickets ... Can you define capitalist anarchy? Does is include things like contract law, etc? Are the folks arguing for free trade really out there advocating for the wholesale abandonment of all commercial, criminal, and civil law and all of the institutions of government when they argue on behalf of ending the tarriff barriers designed to give a free handout to GM, or the ethanol subsides that give corn farmers a public windfall? How about getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction. Is that the mark of an anarchist as well? Do tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 We don't need to start a new discussion to know what you stand for JayB. We all know that you are for unfettered capitalism. We also know that when people tell you that models other than unregulated free for all are quite successful, you only manage to shake the gulag rattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 We don't need to start a new discussion to know what you stand for JayB. We all know that you are for unfettered capitalism. We also know that when people tell you that models other than unregulated free for all are quite successful, you only manage to shake the gulag rattle. I want to hear more about this state of anarchy that includes legislatures, courts, law enforcement, contract law, etc that you've been talking about. Connect the dots between ending prohibition, tarriffs, and subsidies and a Hobbesian free-for-all. Take your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 My interpretation is - really, if you travel around a bit, you, me, we're quite privileged. Doesn't say we couldn't do much better as a country, but the constant pegging-the-meter hyperbole hides whatever message you're trying to get across while everyone winces. Ya know, like fingernails on a blackboard. Huh? Do you know what Hooverism is? Ever read a Dickens' novel? How fucking "shrill" are they? That's the point. Dickens is not shrill. He makes a point quite well with good writing, irony, and logic. Give it a spin sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_b Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 Well, yes, I am no Dickens but we knew it already so the rhetorical effect of your answer isn't what it could be. But, it isn't what you were complaining about. You were complaining about my supposed "hyperbolas", and when I point out to you that they aren't hyperbolas because we are indeed living in the age of hooverism, your concern suddenly becomes about form. So which is it: do you agree that we are living in dire times, with people dying in the streets or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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