Move over Arc'Teryx

[RaisedByPikas]

Sell your expensive Gore-tex and feathered friends down gear because its all about to become obsolete...

 

http://outside-blog.away.com/blog/2010/11/the-gear-junkie-scoop-columbia-sportswear-2011.html

Edited November 12, 2010 by RaisedByPikas

[dan_e]

They are so full of shit and they act like the invented heat reflection fabrics (referring specifically to their new commercials). I always try keep an open mind about new technologies, but still I have yet to see any PE or PU based laminates that actually breath well enough to be used in a jacket. I still think membranes with pores like PTFE (gore-tex) are the way to go, especially since they work (albeit not nearly as good) like our own skin. It would be nice if some one came up with a more eco version of gore-tex. All fabrics with or without breathable membranes have limitations, it's all about knowing what they can and can't do.

 

Columbia BS aside, there are some legit new breathable fabrics coming out. One I am interested is Polartech Power Shield Pro, too bad know one I trust is using yet, especially not TNF! I also want to test the Mammut c_change fabric which is supposed to breath more when it's warm (like our skin works). Sounds great on paper, but does it work in 'real world" situations.

 

Oh and I have to comment on this quote: "The outdoors industry has become stale," said a Columbia exec at the event. "We want to grow the market through innovation."

 

Again you're full of shit Columbia! Grow the market, what with your shitty/gimmicky products and more BS! WTF!!!

[Nitrox]

What could be more innovative than electric heated gloves?

 

 

 

 

[summitchaserCJB]

Body heated gloves?

[G-spotter]

Bioengineered garments made of living skin, that keep you warm and have to be fed Gu once a week

[Water]

yes i think columbia is full of shit, like the textile mills of schoeller and malden mills or whomever it is that now does polartec .. are not innovating their ass off to come off with the next level of innovation on a great marketing platform with a few pinches of hype added.

 

i think columbia is on track to come out with their own version of "The Homer", no doubt.. a 6lb coat that boils water, uses batteries to keep you warm, has GPS built into the zipper pull, and has micro-fans built into the jacket to promote vapor transfer.

 

the mammut c_change is a schoeller product, similar to something they have called 'coldblack' which is suppose to allow darker colors to reflect more heat and not feel as

 

http://www.coldblack.ch/

"Dark colors heat up stronger when exposed to direct sunlight compared to light colors. This no longer needs to happen! Now there is coldblack®, a special finishing technology for textiles which reduces heat build-up and provides reliable protection from UV rays.

 

The coldblack® finishing only contains „bluesign® approved“ components. „bluesign® approved“ components are as low as possible in harmful substances, making them benign to mankind and the environment and encouraging the economical and ecological use of resources in the production process."

[bearbreeder]

arcteryx aint any better folks ... unless you like 900$ yuppie goretex winstopper blazers

Climbers seeking the ultimate weather protecting even during formal dinner parties will be pleased to hear that Arc’teryx has introduced a line of formal clothing made of W. L. Gore’s Wind Stopper fabric. Climbers can now drink and dine at ease knowing they are protected from any freak snowstorm that may strike their favourite thee-star Michelin restaurant.

 

http://gripped.com/2010/11/sections/news/nov-11-2010-gore-tux-formal-wear/

 

most of these fabrics are overated .. powershield isnt very breathable and seems to have a fairly narrow operating temp ... i should know since i have a gamma sv hoody and a gamma lt

 

most of these membrane softshells are fairly useless, having no better breathability than event, nor better water resistance ... the only saving grace is the abrasion resistance ... its more a yuppie fashion statement these days ...

 

the ORIGINAL softshell concept was quite simply a pile or microfibre jacket with a wind resistance layer ... the purpose is to retain the microclimate while wicking away moisture ...

 

the only softshells worth having are the highly breathable ones ... ie the original driclime, schoeller dynamic/dryskin ... or just a light fleece and a windshirt

 

anything that is "highly water resistant" such as windstopper, powershield, etc ... sacrifice breathability to where you might just as well get an event jacket

 

 

 

http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/the_best_softshell_in_the_world

 

Edited November 12, 2010 by bearbreeder

[RaisedByPikas]

A $900 windstopper blazer may be a stupid product but Arc'teryx isn't claiming to revolutionize the outdoor industry with them. Half of REI is devoted to fashionable shit that has no place off of concrete, why not add a wind proof blazer too?

[stevetimetravlr]

$900 for a nice blazer is cheap, its not even Italian made what do you expect?

[BigSky]

Bearbreeder is right on.

[G-spotter]

That Veilance stuff is just Nau for people with more money.

[Figger_Eight]

A $900 windstopper blazer may be a stupid product but Arc'teryx isn't claiming to revolutionize the outdoor industry with them. Half of REI is devoted to fashionable shit that has no place off of concrete, why not add a wind proof blazer too?

 

Pretty much. They're building that stuff simply because people will buy it, regardless of its place in the backcountry. They're not misrepresenting it as anything else. More power to them, I say.

[dan_e]

A $900 windstopper blazer may be a stupid product but Arc'teryx isn't claiming to revolutionize the outdoor industry with them. Half of REI is devoted to fashionable shit that has no place off of concrete, why not add a wind proof blazer too?

 

Pretty much. They're building that stuff simply because people will buy it, regardless of its place in the backcountry. They're not misrepresenting it as anything else. More power to them, I say.

 

Spot on Figger_Eight. What people are refering to is the Veilance division of Arc'teryx. I am not one to spend money on fancy clothes, but if I had the cash I would buy a SS02 Blazer in a second, heck it's even under $900! Who cares if it's not Italian. Most in the industry still agree Arc'teryx makes the best 'constructed' outdoor apparel, however they are not very innovative with fabrics. Still they do use very high quality materials.

[bearbreeder]

best constructed?

 

maybe a decade ago ... now its simply

 

-over priced

-over rated

- made over there

 

and before anybody starts hating here's a list of what i have

 

Jackets ... fission ar, gamma sv, gamma lt, solano, tau lt, beta ar, stingray, atom lt

 

fleece ... 4 various dead bird fleece tops

 

base/mid ... delta, various base layer tops

 

pants ... alpha sv, gamma sk, gamma lt, pallisade

 

harness ... 350a

 

those are just the ones i can remember off the top of my head ....

 

the quality is no better or worse than any other big name outdoor brand... but at a substantial premium

 

i wish people would stop pretending that dead bird is "special" ... hell i can just go play dress up in my gear closest, and be a special yuppie ... lol

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2010 by bearbreeder

[G-spotter]

gearqueer...

[dan_e]

I am confused bearbreeder because it appears that by listing all of the Arc'teryx gear you own it somehow demonstrates that Arc'teryx quality is nothing special. I am not an expert, however I am in the industry and I have extensive experience in the areas of product testing, design and manufacturing. I could start going on with specific details as for why certain companies products are better than others, however I have better ways to spend my time.

 

Regarding this comment, "made over there", it's irrelevant where the product is produced, in fact some of the worst construction I've seen lately is US made. China, Vietnam and India have most of the best sewers in the world. Some Arc'teryx products are still sewn in BC, one example are the harnesses which are hand made. These harnesses are a prime example of Arc'teryx quality, not to mention that they are (IMO) the most compact and most comfortable harnesses ever made. Look at the sewing, look at the fabric quality, look at the finish of the buckles. The beauty is in the details.

 

In my opinion many climbers just want to trash Arc'teryx because the make an $850 windstopper blazer, like this somehow dilutes the name. The old school days are over guys, outdoor gear makers need to adapt to survive. We're so spoiled with all the amazing gear we have these days, sure it's expensive but in reality no more than it was 15 years ago if you adjust for inflation. My first gore-tex suit was well over $800 for the bib and jacket (Florian) back in 1993. I had to practically sell my soul to buy it.

 

[bearbreeder]

i live by the arcteryx outlet ... only reason why i have arcteryx gear ... its no worse or better than EB FA, mammut, OR, NF, MH, etc ... ive used or own them all

 

ive went through 2 350a ... and the drop loops fall apart, theyre too thin, and the only reason i still use it is because MEC replaces them for free ...

 

my atom LT was dethreading ... and the response got was "oh its fragile" ... lol

 

there is absolutely no reason to pay a premium for a made in china/vietnam/etc ... over other reputable companies ... quality is debatable either way ... the support for made in NA is not ... whats the difference between EB FA made in china, patagucci made in china and dead bird made in china? ... none that i can see ...

 

dead bird IMO aint worth the premium ... unless ya like that yuppay cool look

 

 

Edited November 25, 2010 by bearbreeder