hemp22 Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 yeah, people will usually have a jacket or other extra layer in their pack. going uphill is a workout and you get warm quickly, and will usually shed a layer early on. when you stop to rest or get to the top, you put it back on to keep from getting cold. many packs do have a thin foam pad in them that you can remove, but that's often more trouble than it's worth, for the time it takes to take it out and then stuff it back in. sitting on the pack itself is usually quicker, and you're usually not worried about the stuff in your pack getting wet Quote
Alex Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 +1 take off pack and sit on it. foam pad is bulky so day trippers dont usually carry. The thing you want here is a thermos: if the break is long after sweaty uphill grind, one cools off very quickly and can quickly become hypothermic if in the wind. so have your hero bust out a thermos with warm tea and the extended break will be more plausible. bc skiiing arsenal usually includes beacon and shovel. not everyone skis with a probe. climbing skins. skin wax. depending on where your hero is they might have ski crampons. a repair kit for fixing fuxxored bindings is pretty common. a leatherman. Quote
Hugh Conway Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 these days pretty much everyone skis with beacon + shovel + probe. Those more than skins, and few people know what skin wax is, much less carry it. Ski crampons are for homo-hosen wearing freaks, binding repair kits aren't common. Mine and Alex's posts reflect, somewhat, a generational divide. Those over 40 or so would be more like his post, those under, particularly 30 and under would be closer to my stereotype. Quote
wfinley Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 Don't forget about the safety kit. Especially if your hero is a hippie telmarker. Quote
rmncwrtr Posted March 4, 2011 Author Posted March 4, 2011 Thanks! Appreciate the extra details I can add in. The book needs to be sent off on Monday so I'll probably have some more questions like this over the next couple of days. It'll come back to me at the end of the week for revisions that will be due at the end of the month. And that's when I'll really have to make sure what I wrote is plausible/makes sense! Back to work! Quote
rob Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 +1 on safety kit. I never enter the mountains without it. Safety first. Quote
rmncwrtr Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 If anyone has time to read and offer an opinion.... Here's the unplanned bivy scenario. Just wrote it (i.e. first draft) based on what people had shared in posts a page or so back. Is this plausible/realistic? Anything you'd changed to make it more real? I want to work on the climbing part first then I'll work on polishing the words. "There was this one time on Stuart." "Mount Stuart in Washington?" She nodded. "It was sunny. A few clouds in the sky, but good conditions for a day climb. Halfway up the weather started changing. It was strange. Rain, hail, snow, sun again. We should have turned around, but we were young with one goal, the summit, so kept climbing." "We?" "Paulson and I." She could remember the climb like it was yesterday not twelve years ago. "We reached the summit and started our descent, but daylight disappeared so fast. Dying batteries in our headlamps didn't help. We couldn't see the route and weren't really sure where we were. We ended up stuck on this narrow ledge. It downsloped so much I kept thinking we were going to slide off. We had belay jackets, but no sleeping bags or bivy sacks. The "ten essentials" were more like "ten suggestions" to us back then. We sat on our packs. I remember our feet dangled over the edge. It was a long way down. I knew that even in the pitch black." "What did you do?" "We kept our harnesses on and anchored ourselves as best we could. It was freezing cold. I shivered so badly my helmet sounded like a jackhammer against the rock behind me. We shared one of those space blankets. Neither of us wanted to fall asleep. We kept slapping ourselves and each to stay warm and awake. We both knew if it snowed or rained again, we would be dead." "You're here so you made it down." She nodded. "The night seemed to last forever, but finally the sun peeked over the horizon. It was so beautiful to see the dawn break. As soon as there was enough light, we started our descent. An hour later, it started to snow, but we were moving and warmer by then." Quote
wfinley Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 I thought you were writing a romance novel? Where's the hot and heavy action, the labored breathing and all that? This sounds too realistic. On a serious note - it's good. The "ten essentials" sentence is a tad cliche. Most climbers wouldn't admit to packing the 10 essentials - it makes them sound kind-of geeky. Quote
Off_White Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Safety first. you mean Safety Third link NOTE: the 19 minute film does contain nudity and may not be safe for your workplace. Maybe your next romance could be set at Burning Man? Quote
rmncwrtr Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 I thought you were writing a romance novel? Where's the hot and heavy action, the labored breathing and all that? This sounds too realistic. On a serious note - it's good. The "ten essentials" sentence is a tad cliche. Most climbers wouldn't admit to packing the 10 essentials - it makes them sound kind-of geeky. Haha! They just kissed before this (and he'll try right after this again). She doesn't want to kiss him again so trying to distract her and him from thinking about kissing. Thus trying to engage him in a serious discussion. My books have no sex so I have to work the tension thing. As well as the kissing. Also she's a mountain rescuer so that's why she mentions the ten essentials. She would be kind of geeky because she's a by the book kind of girl. So good if it came off that way! That's what I wanted. Thanks! Quote
rmncwrtr Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 As soon as I have extra time, I'll watch, Off Right now I'm in a bit of a panic and trying to make the most of the time I have. Quote
Coldfinger Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 My books have no sex Ah, I finally understand why CC.com is so helpful....... Quote
Coldfinger Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Er, and too much use of "we", except where it needed to be "so we kept climbing...." Also I usually end up sitting/sleeping on the ropes, I'd go for more descriptions of the atmospherics. Bivies in storms can be kinda weird that way. Dying batteries isn't anything that happens much anymore, what with LED's and all, so I'd blame the weather. So the storm just gets worse, no sun coming back. Decide whether the moon has an appearance, and decide on a route (even if you make it up). Most climbers would say the ___ route on Mt. _____. Might want to research verglas as well, would be logical as a reason to stop and an occurrence if there were a storm and then the night was so cold they almost died. FINALLY, they only way to survive a bad bivy is to..................... ................. ................. .............. CUDDLE. Can make for a rather long and awkward night when sleeping on a cold rock with only another dude to snuggle. Quote
pcg Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) I remember our feet dangled over the edge. Just thinking about this scenario... If it was that cold I wouldn't have my feet dangling over the edge. I'd be trying to hold a fetal position - all that more miserable a night as there was no comfortable place to rest my feet, which were freezing... This makes my knees and back ache just thinking about it... If anyone has time to read and offer an opinion.... Here's the unplanned bivy scenario. Just wrote it (i.e. first draft)... "Neither of us wanted to fall asleep. We kept slapping ourselves and each [other] to stay warm and awake." You would probably have caught this, but since I did here's a typo for ya. Edited March 5, 2011 by pcg Quote
rmncwrtr Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 Coldfinger - it's a woman and a guy. But on a narrow downsloping ledge like that, I was having trouble figuring out how they would spoon or cuddle. But I've never been in such a spot so maybe it is possible! They are best friends, more like brother and sister, so nothing else would be happening between them. Or would they just get that cold and desperate to warm up? Anybody ever been in this position? I haven't so hard for me to know what they might do. Were there LED headlamps twelve years ago? She's just explaining what happened in the past to the hero who wants to kiss her. Easy to take that line out though. I'm assuming if it's too dark and not great weather, nothing's going to help you get down. I'll recheck Sobo's post about what route he was on since his was where I got Stuart from. PCG - Love the fetal position. Didn't even think of that. And freezing feet. I meant to put that in there after reading wfinley's bivy TR. Appreciate you finding that typo, too. Will make my job easier when I go over it again. Back to it! Quote
wfinley Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 I once bivied where we had to duck into a crevasse during a blizzard. There were 3 of us... me, and a couple. The woman crawled into the cave and curled into a fetal position - whereas the man was so thin we was forced to pace all night to stay warm. When I saw that the man wasn't going to cuddle with his girlfriend I jumped right in there and we spooned all night. He gave me a dirty look but I refused to move. All is fair on bivy ledges - and like Vegas what happens on the ledge - stays on the ledge. Quote
Coldfinger Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 They are best friends, more like brother and sister, so nothing else would be happening between them. Er, well if it was that many years ago maybe it did (she doesn't tell your hero who wants to kiss her) and that's why he wants to kiss her but she is awkward and elsewhere and otherwise throwing weird vibes even though she thinks....... You know how young folks are. Good luck, get some sleep too. Quote
Coldfinger Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 They are best friends, more like brother and sister, so nothing else would be happening between them. Or would they just get that cold and desperate to warm up? If they want to live (or at least not suffer so much) they would. May sound crazy but if you want some idea of how bad bivies in a storm are, either go sleep on your roof in a winter storm or hang in a harness from the garage rafters for a night. That or imagine an all nite session on the computer writing and it's three and you're not done and oh yes it's 10 degrees and your soaked. Bivies really are that bad, reason being it has to be really bad before you stop going down. Quote
Dave A. Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Spooning is the best way to conserve heat,at least half of each of you is warm. If it comes to saving your life you spoon with anyone available. I think the ten essentials part was right on, most of us don't carry what's on the published lists. Since there's nothing to burn up there your lighter and firestarter is pretty much useless, once you're done burning your map. I'd rather have a bivy jacket and someone to cuddle with.My last unplanned bivy was on Mt. Stuart, a couple hundred feet above the Cascadian Couloir. Quote
rmncwrtr Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 Okay, I'll figure out a way to have them cuddle uncomfortably on the ledge. Maybe what happens up there tells them they really only should be friends. (the hero is curious about their close friendship so I can use it for that, too.) Thanks. I shot Sobo a PM, but... Dave A. - what route were you climbing on Stuart? Quote
Dave A. Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 I had climbed the North Ridge. For your scenario of a nice day climb I would suggest you have them climb the West Ridge. The somewhat common mistake of getting into Ulrich's Couloir on the descent instead of the Cascadian could easily put them on your sloping ledge. Dave Quote
Dave A. Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 P.S. For your backcountry ski trip the safety kit referred to generally contains a delightful green herb, a brass or glass utensil, and a Bic. I assume you don't carry such things while skiing with your kids, and didn't know if you knew what they were referring to. The kit is usually used at "safety meetings". Quote
rmncwrtr Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 Thanks Dave. Will stick them on the West Ridge. And totally thinking safety kit = first aid kit. Never thought otherwise and it took me a second to realize what you even meant. LOL! Pollyanna, here Really appreciate the heads up on that! Will be sure to check any future gear suggested here for double meanings! :kisss: Quote
rmncwrtr Posted March 5, 2011 Author Posted March 5, 2011 Would a guy/firefighter/1st year climber say this to a woman if he was curious what happened on the ledge. It's the "chummy" I'm thinking might not be right for a 28 yo male. "You two must have gotten chummy on that ledge." Quote
Hugh Conway Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 My books have no sex Ah, I finally understand why CC.com is so helpful....... Sex sells in the "romance" business Quote
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