Down Verses Synthetic

[bearbreeder]

damn rei flashers ... lol

 

 

 

[dhrmabum]

do note that the disadvantage for me anyways is one of bulk rather than weight for a synthetic bag ... my synth bag takes up over 1/3 of my alpine pack

 

although the best 800 fill down bags will be ~30% lighter than the best synthetic bags on the market, 650 fill bags are often the same weight as a good synthetic bag

 

as an example my climbashield cats meow is 19F en 13537 tested, takes up 15L or so and weights 1200g

 

the marmot helium 800 fill which is 16F en 13537 tested, weights 1077g but takes up less space

 

the marmot sawtooth 600 fill is 14F en 13537 tested, weights more at 1389g ... but is 5F warmer ...

 

so the short story is that only 800 fill is worth buying ... the top synthetic bags are at the same level of 600 fill down ... and likely 1/2 the price to boot especially on sale

 

just make sure you find ones which are tested if you want to be certain of the temp rating

 

 

Not bad data, but, that Cat's Meow isn't nearly as warm as either one of those down bags. . . despite what they may claim.

[Coldfinger]

I meant in winter temperatures as far as synthetic bags and sleeping warmth go. Three season wise I've had good luck with synthetic bags, but the insulation really doesn't hold up too well past a few seasons of hard use.

 

Still, I'm not going bag to a synthetic bag!

 

Love the belay jacket for dumping all my day's moisture at the end of the day, instead of dropping it into my down bag. Kinda like a giant orange puffy beach towel!

[dhrmabum]

No, I was responding to Bearbreeder's comparison of bags. . .

I do have one synthetic bag, and that is the Northface Cats Meow. A few years old, but used less than a handful of times, virtually new, hardly any loft in it, but I bought it for kayaking trips, etc. when I would be around water. It just doesn't live up to its claim of being a 20deg. bag. Ok, maybe within the first year.

 

I like your, and others, idea of dumping one's moisture into the synthetic. . . I have accomplished this, though only when hiking.

[Dane]

Couple of thoughts come to mind. Climbing in a wet snow storm all day will get you wet if you are dressed wrong. Or being over dressing for the conditions will get you wet from prespiration.

 

I've used my synthetic parka to dry my soft shell out in wet snow conditons after I got chilled on a belay. I couldn't get myself dried while stopped without added insulation. I also have used a base layer to do the approach in, knowing I would soak it and then changed to dry clothing to do the climb. That is a lighter and much warmer tactic over all for me.

 

The major issue of winter climbing is moisture management. Be it clothing or sleeping bags. The reason it is an issue from what I have seen is people over dress for the activity level, just as likely use the wrong piece of kit or simply don't pay attention to the details. Soft shell in a snow storm (done it myself) is not the smart option. Doesn't matter what it is made of wet gear is a poor insulator. You stay warm by staying dry and hydrated.

 

There are climbs I wouldn't take a down bag on and climbs I wouldn't take anything but a down bag on. It depends on the amount of care I can/want to dedicate to the bag and amount of space in my pack.

 

Some times a very light synthetic over bag is a good answer for keeping your down bag dry and being able to dry your gear at night. But climbing into a down bag with all your wet clothing on is a sure way to soak your down bag. Staying dry and warm is a thinking man's game.

[BigSky]

Good post, pretty much sums it up.

[stevetimetravlr]

wear synthetic underwear and like it.

[Coldfinger]

And one wouldn't want any unwanted chafing or even hemorrhoids!

 

I prefer dark colored boxers.

[bearbreeder]

the older polarguard cats meow is not properly rated ... that one was more properly a 30F bag

 

the newer blue cats meow is a 20F bag ... en-testing requires that it be tested at independent laboratories whose equipment is certified to be less than a certain % variation each other

 

this is of course for a brand new bag ... like any synthetic the more and deeper compression cycles it goes through the more the insulation degrades

 

IMO ... the most overlooked part of a climber's sleep system is the ground insulation ... it doesnt matter if you have a 20F bag if you have a single zlite pad ... youll lose heat through the ground ... bag tests are done on the assumption that you have a total ground insulation with an R value of 5+ ... in other words try to shoot for 2 pads ... or at the very least your main pad and yr bivy backframe pad on top

 

ive found my cats meow to be fairly rated ... used it down to -10C with base layers and fleece

 

as to sweat ... sweating is the killer in winter ... dress to stay cool on the move ... warm on belays

 

 

 

[dhrmabum]

Yeah, well, I'm guessing maybe they improved the bag to meet the new temp requirements. . .

My son was sleeping in his Meow this past summer, late Aug. in the shadow of the Sierras, on a very cold night, and was freezing in his bag. True, his bag is a few years old and we were sleeping without a tent, but. . I was in a Marmot 30deg. down and was still warm. Many of the reviews on the bag say about the same thing. Oops! Just looked at REI's page on the bag and the reviews are gone! New bag, new design I guess. The pic of the new bag certainly looks loftier than the old one.

Anyway, agree about ground insulation, fo sure.

[G-spotter]

The fatter you are the less insulation you need.

[dhrmabum]

The fatter you are the less insulation you need.

 

True. Time to eat and drink up! Winter's here.