Portland Rock Climbs Book-Updated 3rd Edition?

[billcoe]

hey bill, trundle buddy joseph seems to think it's drop zone (DZ) too. i'll be surprised if jim will be able to walk by the end of the day with as many kicks too the nuts he has had today.

 

Could be he caught Jim going at it with his hens, I can't speak for why JH chooses that path, but IMO it's wrong. Pretty simple here to me, you're either kicking Jim in the nutz and swimming upstream against what most folks are calling it, or you're onboard and not. For myself, like most people I'm on and I'd like to see everyone else all onboard and maybe we can avoid the usual drama.

 

[JosephH]

But there already is a FS climbing area in WA. Personalities aside it seems impractical for there to be two of them in the same state. It would also seem no one got Bryan, Mark, Arent, and Kevin on board before changing it.

 

I don't want it in the guide and I know Jim said several times he didn't want it in the guide and I've relayed that several times to Olson.

[kevbone]

It would also seem no one got Bryan, Mark, Arent, and Kevin on board before changing it.

 

 

 

[stevetimetravlr]

but I want it in the guide, what about me and my feelings?

[JosephH]

Why? Don't you know where it is?

[kevbone]

Pretty simple here to me, you're either kicking Jim in the nutz and swimming upstream against what most folks are calling it, or you're onboard and not. For myself, like most people I'm on and I'd like to see everyone else all onboard and maybe we can avoid the usual drama.

 

 

Why would we be kicking Jim in the nutz? Why is he not kicking us in the nutz for changing the name from the excepted Drop Zone to the Far Side? Jim is not the end all.

[stevetimetravlr]

yeah, I've been there. Kind of like Ozone without the bolts and dolts, but with a little more moss and choss and broken glass and no cute ass.

[JosephH]

Then what would you get out of it being in a guide?

[stevetimetravlr]

What difference would it make? Its not like there are thousands of trad climbers waiting to rush the place.

[JosephH]

The difference it would make is a PRG-O clusterfuck and the fact there is limited parking in a stretch of road I suspect WDOT and the local cops aren't thrilled we're using on top of the PRG-O parking. And if anyone ever parks on the north side of the road in the shoulder designed and actively used by semis to allow cars to pass then the tickets will really start to fly and there could easily be some county/state inquiry on DZ and PRG-O as a result.

 

And if there are only a handful of trad climbers then there is no reason at all to publish it is there? And why do you care one way or the other - why exactly do you want it published?

[stevetimetravlr]

Me? I don't really care one way or another but if the main developers want it in the guide, then their wishes seem to carry the weight.

You have valid points about the parking Joseph, but Ozone still abides even with the parking baloney. I doubt I will frequent the place so its no skin off my lazy sport climbing ass.

[JosephH]

Ozone has at least some extended off-shoulder parking to the west end and another good off-shoulder spot at its east end. DZ has no such off-shoulder parking. In fact, we are parking on the south side of the road in what has been used by the semis for passing even if it isn't marked for that purpose. Ozone's parking situation is about right for the load it gets - DZ can only accommodate so many cars on the south side of the highway and anyone parking on the north side is going to cause real trouble for us and likely Ozone as well.

 

The parking issue alone should be causing some serious concern about publishing the place. Doubly so given that whole stretch of 14 is slated for rennovation and road straightening. And while Justin King, the WSDOT manager for the project is currently cool with Ozone parking, he could easily become less so if any hassles develop on the DZ stretch of the road. From my perspective this is a case of climbers acting as if no one else existed, not seeing the bigger picture, and not really thinking the whole thing through.

 

It could very easily lead to a situation which would result in a state and / or county review of parking at Ozone and put parking at both Ozone and DZ at risk - and for what? Seems pretty ego-centric, shortsighted, and stupid to me.

[kevbone]

A trail needs to be built connecting the Ozone to the Drop. Problem solved. It will happen. Mark my words.

[JosephH]

A trail absolutely does NOT need to be built between the two. And you need yet more attention for a couple more of your routes or what the fuck is your deal with needing it published? It's moronic and sad that people need their egos stroked in this way and are willing to throw a little area like this under the bus to get it and a couple of bucks - let alone jeapordize Ozone parking in the process.

[billcoe]

JH, if you've ever spent even a few seconds wondering why folks get upset and cranky with you: and incessantly ride you online, you have only to review this thread and our exchange to find the answer. Please spend some time reflecting on this.

 

Regards

 

Bill

[kevbone]

A trail absolutely does NOT need to be built between the two.

 

That is like saying no trail needed to be built between the red wall and the bat wall at broughtons.

[JosephH]

I don't. And as I said, I just didn't and don't get the point of two FS's in the state of WA or the relentless need to publish it. Does that mean the parking issues are of no concern to you and that you're all for publishing it?

[ivan]

a nice trail connecting the two sites and a renovation to 14 taking into account the benevolent use of the area would be good

 

publication is of course an ego thing but that doesn't mean its bad - what's wrong w/ being proud of a route you put up and wanting to share it w/ others? the parking situation can be resolved easily enough if they are in fact going to be seriously adding to the existing road and if it is easy to move between the two locations.

 

fwiw, i prefered "bonezone"

[JosephH]

a nice trail connecting the two sites ... would be good

I disagree.

 

publication is of course an ego thing but that doesn't mean its bad - what's wrong w/ being proud of a route you put up and wanting to share it w/ others?

DZ doesn't need the pressure of mob scene. Seen it with with 28 folks once and it was your classic full on PRG-O zoo, might be your idea of a good time out there, definitely not mine.

 

...and a renovation to 14 taking into account the benevolent use of the area...

 

The parking situation can be resolved easily enough if they are in fact going to be seriously adding to the existing road and if it is easy to move between the two locations.

That would be a bit of naive wishful thinking and the parking situation cannot be "resolved easily enough". WSDOT is making no plans for 'adding to the existing road'; in fact, if anything they will likely co-opt existing parking for equipment once the project launches. WSDOT, even more so than WDFW, doesn't care about climbers, "benevolent use", 'what is right' or 'what is fair'. And you don't want them to start caring about climbers, because if they do it will likely be dealing with us an unnecessary nuisance on the side of their road to be eliminated.

 

You're a WA public teacher, how sensitive would the WDOE likely be with regard to local concerns of what is "benevolent use", 'what is right' or 'what is fair'?

[ivan]

yer such a doooowner man

 

i rarely climb at either spot so don't much care how many folks are there - fs's much more trad, so i doubt it'd be as fucked silly as ozone

 

are you opposed to a trail solely b/c of increased traffic?

 

i thought the redo of 14 was pushing the road away from these 2 crags? would seem to be leaving pavemetn behind to park at - of course the actual period of construction would likely complicate parking.

[JosephH]

yer such a doooowner man

You're welcome.

 

are you opposed to a trail solely b/c of increased traffic?

Yeah, saw the place mobbed that one day which I took as a sign of things to come as things like guidebooks and trails happen, I consider those to be such a downer.

 

i thought the redo of 14 was pushing the road away from these 2 crags? would seem to be leaving pavemetn behind to park at - of course the actual period of construction would likely complicate parking.

They are slated to straighten the set of curves immediately before Ozone and I believe after DZ with no work actually involving either, so the parking situation would remain unchanged at both beyond the likelihood of it being taken over for construction equipment during the project.

 

Sunday, August 15, 2010 / Camas City Council, 4:30 p.m., City Hall, 616 N.E. Fourth Ave.; workshop to discuss Highway 14 construction update from WSDOT; Clark County HUD grant application; fire consolidation with city of Washougal; Wildlife League firearms/shooting update; Alpine Lane storm line easement; and change orders for engineering projects.

Looks like the project is still on track and the bottom line is you don't want to piss off WSDOT, Skamaia County public works guys, or the cops in any way and screwing up the parking or passing shoulder on the DZ stretch of 14 could easily do that. Publish if you must, but don't be surprised if it causes a problem in the not too distant future.

[JosephH]

Overview

This project will help improve safety and mobility on State Route 14 between Marble Road and Belle Center Road in western Skamania County by straightening several curves, paving and replacing guardrail, and rebuilding the shoulder to accommodate slow-moving trucks on the highway.

 

Why is WSDOT constructing this project?

 

SR 14 is a popular route for sightseeing and accessing various historical and recreational sites inside the Columbia River Gorge National Scenic Area. It is also utilized by many commercial trucks on their way to and from ports and cities along the Columbia River and the Washington-Oregon state line.

 

Approximately 4,700 vehicles drive this section of SR 14 each day. Between 2000 and 2007, there were 244 reported collisions between Marble Road and Salmon Falls Road. In May 2004, the Washington Traffic Safety Commission and Steering Committee, in conjunction with WSDOT, designated a portion of SR 14 in Skamania County between the Clark County line and North Bonneville as a Traffic Safety Corridor.

 

The End Result

 

This project will realign SR 14 further north in order to straighten out several curves just west of Marble Road (milepost 22.68 to 23.00). In addition, the project will rebuild the eastbound shoulder of the highway between Marble Road and Belle Center Road, which is commonly used by slow-moving trucks. Other minor safety improvements will be completed at the Belle Center Road and SR 14 intersection.

 

WSDOT has combined this project with an existing pavement preservation project that will repair damaged pavement and replace guardrail on approximately seven miles of roadway from the Clark-Skamania County line to Prindle Road (milepost 21.77 to 27.87).

 

Previously, this project proposed to realign SR 14 at Belle Center Road (milepost 23.02 to 23.34) and between Belle Center Road and Cape Horn (milepost 23.34 to 24.6). Both of these elements have been deferred from the project due to escalating construction costs and limited funding. This project will still provide important safety improvements to this portion of SR 14.

Status: August 2010

 

Construction is scheduled to begin summer 2011.

 

The environmental documentation for this project was completed September 2009.

 

Due to escalating construction costs and limited funding, the realignment of SR 14 at Belle Center Road and Cape Horn have been deferred from the project.

 

[hemp22]

Previously, this project proposed to realign SR 14 at Belle Center Road (milepost 23.02 to 23.34) and between Belle Center Road and Cape Horn (milepost 23.34 to 24.6). Both of these elements have been deferred from the project due to escalating construction costs and limited funding. This project will still provide important safety improvements to this portion of SR 14.

 

Just adding emphasis to be sure you read this far - it looks to me like the work that would actually impact 'zone parking as been "Deferred".

[JosephH]

Yeah, not only did I read it, that's why I posted it. The fact that it's been deferred means nothing will be changing and DZ will still have no off-shoulder parking and still only have the south side of the road available. Publish if you need to, and it sounds like people need to, but don't be surprised if it ends up a clusterfuck like Ozone and puts parking at both places in jeopardy.

[pink]

your "BEACON ROCK UPDATE" is pretty much an ego drivin interstellar guidebook as far as i'm concerned.... like i said before, you have that " RULING CLASS" mentality like the dumbshit in the oval office. everybody sit down and shut up cause joseph knows better. it's okay for you to broadcast, but not anybody else may indulge.