beacon bolting question?

[Mr. Hands]

Why would you replace an anchor with a crap set up like that. USE A FUCKING HANGER!!!!

 

Yeah, yeah yeah. I have a barrel of stainless Fixes in the basement. Maybe 2 barrels. I have no problem leaving hangers behind.....other places. I've recently put in and left 358 of them, the big 1/2 diameter ones. Stainless. But that was where they can be expected to be left unmolested for a while and on ew routes. Not at this location as these are established routes and there is no need.

 

In fact I did put in a single set of the Stainless Fixe chain anchors here that have the hanger integrated into them, and have been waiting to see how long they stay there. CC.com poster Lodestone was able to get one of the bolts pulled out with that 4' crowbar and we reused the hole. The other one snapped, but he had it loose. It was the first time I've heard of a 3/8 being reused. Greg Barnes of the APCA says he gave up on being able to reuse a 3/8 hole.

 

We're at about 2 months they've been there I think and they have not been molested .....yet. I Loctited them down, but that's no guarantee they'll be there tomorrow when someone pulls them for their project elsewhere. I go look to see if they are still there everytime I'm in the vicinity and have been amazed that they have lasted this long.

 

The chains are plenty strong, that's a 1/2" diameter bolt, it's bigger and stronger than what was traditionally utilized up there since @ 1980 (3/8 x 3 studs and steel chain)- and chain is used because it tends to be left alone. However, if you would like to donate the hardware or the money to see how long until your shiny new hangers last till some chump yanks them for a project he's working elsewhere, step up. Sad, but from what I've seen they have about a 15 min life expectancy from when you first turn your head and some douche with a wrench shows up I'd say.

 

 

Only in Portland would you claim to have a consistent problem with stealing hangers.... WTF IS UP WITH YOU GUYS!!!!

[Mr. Hands]

Why would you replace an anchor with a crap set up like that. USE A FUCKING HANGER!!!!

 

Yeah, yeah yeah. I have a barrel of stainless Fixes in the basement. Maybe 2 barrels. I have no problem leaving hangers behind.....other places. I've recently put in and left 358 of them, the big 1/2 diameter ones. Stainless. But that was where they can be expected to be left unmolested for a while and on ew routes. Not at this location as these are established routes and there is no need.

 

In fact I did put in a single set of the Stainless Fixe chain anchors here that have the hanger integrated into them, and have been waiting to see how long they stay there. CC.com poster Lodestone was able to get one of the bolts pulled out with that 4' crowbar and we reused the hole. The other one snapped, but he had it loose. It was the first time I've heard of a 3/8 being reused. Greg Barnes of the APCA says he gave up on being able to reuse a 3/8 hole.

 

We're at about 2 months they've been there I think and they have not been molested .....yet. I Loctited them down, but that's no guarantee they'll be there tomorrow when someone pulls them for their project elsewhere. I go look to see if they are still there everytime I'm in the vicinity and have been amazed that they have lasted this long.

 

The chains are plenty strong, that's a 1/2" diameter bolt, it's bigger and stronger than what was traditionally utilized up there since @ 1980 (3/8 x 3 studs and steel chain)- and chain is used because it tends to be left alone. However, if you would like to donate the hardware or the money to see how long until your shiny new hangers last till some chump yanks them for a project he's working elsewhere, step up. Sad, but from what I've seen they have about a 15 min life expectancy from when you first turn your head and some douche with a wrench shows up I'd say.

 

 

Only in Portland would you claim to have a consitent problem with that! WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH YOU GUYS?!!?!?!?!

[counterfeitfake]

beacon is a wretched hive of scum and villainy

[JosephH]

Bummer I can't get out there today as I'm feeling particularly scummy and villainous here at work.

[kevbone]

How so? Again, no bolt got added, removed, or moved

 

Really? Did you not just say you did not use the same hole? then the bolt got moved.

[kevbone]

 

Why would you replace an anchor with a crap set up like that. USE A FUCKING HANGER!!!!

 

100% agree. Bill why replace a old school set up with more old school set up. Especially since you know how to use hangers.

[kevbone]

isn't this where bill chimes in and points out how great of a guy joseph is an how we should all thank him for all his hard work....

 

 

[King Beatard]

If I were adding, removing or moving a bolt on YW or any other route then I'd be following the FA's wishes. But not rebolting bad bolts in the face of these comments:

 

I let Jim know what I had in mind, to which he replied, in effect, every bolt on the route was in perfect shape and wouldn't need replacing and could never be replaced without screwing up the route because every bolt was in the 'perfect' spot.

Sorry, all bets were off in the face of that sort of nonsense. Again, the route and the experience of climbing it is completely unaltered from the rebolting - go climb it and tell me otherwise. Rock fall blasting the hand rail off of the top of the p3 crux changed the experience of climbing the route; Jim, Bill and I trundling a ton or two of former holds off of the top of p1 changed it substantially; and folks muscling off a few holds here and there sure did as well - but my rebolting it, not at all. If anyone thinks otherwise then climb it and post up how the experience has changed. Otherwise, it just got new 1/2" SS bolts that will still be pristine when the whiners among you are bitching in your deathbed.

 

You didn't get any consensus about what you did not changing the route for this community. I even wrote a 6 point argument stating why you should not retrobolt Young Warriors and as far as I heard, everyone but you agreed with me. For me, you changed the feel of the route irreparably by altering it's history which is something I appreciate deeply about the climb - SO FUCK YOU! One more time, FUCK YOU, FUCK YOU AND YOUR ASS FACE, FUCK YOU. And one more thing, let's go climbing next time I'm back in town, but none the less, FUCK YOU!

[JosephH]

You didn't get any consensus about what you did not changing the route for this community. I even wrote a 6 point argument stating why you should not retrobolt Young Warriors and as far as I heard, everyone but you agreed with me. For me, you changed the feel of the route irreparably by altering it's history which is something I appreciate deeply about the climb - SO FUCK YOU! One more time, FUCK YOU, FUCK YOU AND YOUR ASS FACE, FUCK YOU. And one more thing, let's go climbing next time I'm back in town, but none the less, FUCK YOU!

Sigh. Let's see, that's now three of you who don't seem to know what retrobolting means. So, have you climbed YW this season? Yes? No? Oh, and if you had a name you'd at least stand some chance I'd give a wit about what you think; as it is you might as well be pissing on your keyboard and monitor.

[kevbone]

JH....I think the point everyone is trying to make is you asked Jim directly if you could do it and he said NO, and you did it anyway.

 

To me that is a dick move anyway you slice it.

[eldiente]

Replacing old, worn bolts is just that, replacing old worn bolts. Usually thought of as good community service. It is a tad ironic that someone who likes to publicly spout about the evils of bolting, has probably sunk more bolts in the Portland area than all of the sport wankers combined. (High five, if there is going to be metal junk stuck in the wall, it may as well be good metal junk)

 

(Side note, Beacon climbers on CC.com should start a timer every time they post into this thread. There are many software utilities that lawyers use for this sort of thing. Keep track of the total time you spend posting into this thread and sum for the whole year. With all that time you could have taken a trip to somewhere with really good climbing that would blow your mind. See below. Or if you can't get out of town, you could use that time for training. You'd get so strong that you wouldn't give a crap about bolts because you aren't going to fall anyway and you're putting your energy into a thin desperate crack that hasn't been climbed in 10 years. Ok that took me three minutes to write, three minutes on the hang board tonight for me)

 

-Nate

 

[img:center]http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XNueStDVX8c/SqfZo000XaI/AAAAAAAAGpA/vLCtOTTixF0/s640/P1000643.JPG[/img]

 

 

Edited August 19, 2010 by eldiente

[pink]

looks like the hulk

[King Beatard]

JH....I think the point everyone is trying to make is you asked Jim directly if you could do it and he said NO, and you did it anyway.

 

To me that is a dick move anyway you slice it.

 

[JosephH]

Looks like Brooke and company's route on Prusik

[kevbone]

JH....I think the point everyone is trying to make is you asked Jim directly if you could do it and he said NO, and you did it anyway.

 

To me that is a dick move anyway you slice it.

 

 

JH. You please response to this. If you can.

[King Beatard]

You didn't get any consensus about what you did not changing the route for this community. I even wrote a 6 point argument stating why you should not retrobolt Young Warriors and as far as I heard, everyone but you agreed with me. For me, you changed the feel of the route irreparably by altering it's history which is something I appreciate deeply about the climb - SO FUCK YOU! One more time, FUCK YOU, FUCK YOU AND YOUR ASS FACE, FUCK YOU. And one more thing, let's go climbing next time I'm back in town, but none the less, FUCK YOU!

Sigh. Let's see, that's now three of you who don't seem to know what retrobolting means. So, have you climbed YW this season? Yes? No? Oh, and if you had a name you'd at least stand some chance I'd give a wit about what you think; as it is you might as well be pissing on your keyboard and monitor.

 

My identity is not a secret, if you read threads that are not pissing matches you'd know me:

 

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/963690/Fare_thee_well_bruddah#Post963690

[JosephH]

JH....I think the point everyone is trying to make is you asked Jim directly if you could do it and he said NO, and you did it anyway.

Actually, before he hurt his knee he was going to come out with me when I did it so he could look at each bolt. What he said is 'the bolts are fine' and 'they can't [ever] be replaced without screwing up the climb because each one is in the perfect place'. But the reality was the bolts sucked and after the bolts blew up at Index I have no regrets whatsoever replacing them. Both of his reasons why the bolts couldn't be replace are entirely bogus. Again, climbed the route this season? Yes? No? How did it climb? Funny how we've been open for awhile and noone who climbed it has said shit about.

 

To me that is a dick move anyway you slice it.

In your case, I do know your name and you definitely might as well be pissing on your keyboard and monitor.

[stevetimetravlr]

I've climbed it 3 times this season, and I wish we could have spoken with Jim prior to the retrobolting, and perhaps got his permission to move the bolt that you have to reach far left to clip on the 2nd pitch, maybe move it up on the slab above you, it creates all the rope drag on the pitch. But its to late now, all retrobolted with stainless steel that will be there forever......what sad times when passing ruffians can bolt at will.

Started on Crusing, then Jills Thrill and Uprising. Nice chill mellow day, it was clouldy and chilly to start around noon, but it warmed up and the clouds burned off. The SE corner was a zoo.

[geoff]

Nate has a point. There is way more history in the Valley than at Beacon. Those guys are replacing 1000s of bad/old bolts. No one is bitching about that. If JH thinks a bolt is bad, and is willing to replace it, the bolt should probably be replaced.

 

Jim may act like he's pissed, but I bet he comes around and will be happy the route will continue on for many more years.

 

As for moving a bolt, that would be changing the route. You don't like that bolt on P2, just don't clip it. Like BC says, it just messes up your rhythm to clip that thing. And since those moves must be way easy for you, why would you even care?

 

While we on the subject, whomever chopped JH's slings must be at least half retarded. Good luck climbing off the beaten path.

 

 

But really, who got got at the Ozone?

Edited August 20, 2010 by geoff

[stevetimetravlr]

The point is not really that he replaced the bolts. People do that all the time in all the areas. That's great. You're right, I could care less about that bolts location.

Its that he jumps all over everyone else for doing exactly what he does, no one is allowed to make the judgement calls but him. That's not OK.

[pink]

The point is not really that he replaced the bolts. People do that all the time in all the areas. That's great. You're right, I could care less about that bolts location.

Its that he jumps all over everyone else for doing exactly what he does, no one is allowed to make the judgement calls but him. That's not OK.

 

i agree, replacing bolts is a good thing.

 

but joseph seems to have a "ruling class" mentality... like he knows what's best for everyone and is smarter on almost every level. it all sounds very exhausting to me.

[JosephH]

I've climbed it 3 times this season, and I wish we could have spoken with Jim prior to the retrobolting...

Ok, at this point it's really getting to look like an impairment or special ed sort of deal...

 

...and perhaps got his permission to move the bolt that you have to reach far left to clip on the 2nd pitch...

So, just so I get this straight now that you've gone on the record here. You are castigating me for retrobolting YW - which I did not do - and in the same breath lamenting the fact you wish YW could have been retrobolted to your liking (wtf, didn't you read the part where every bolt is perfect). In other words, I didn't retrobolt it, but you explicitly wish it had been. Well, my friend, you just voted that the experience of clipping at least that bolt is completely unaltered from before - the very definition of rebolting.

 

...what sad times when passing ruffians can bolt at will.

Yep, my tally for drilling protection bolts stands an unparalleled and staggeringly ruffian count of - one - in thirty six years.

[Mr. Hands]

I've climbed it 3 times this season, and I wish we could have spoken with Jim prior to the retrobolting, and perhaps got his permission to move the bolt that you have to reach far left to clip on the 2nd pitch, maybe move it up on the slab above you, it creates all the rope drag on the pitch. But its to late now, all retrobolted with stainless steel that will be there forever......what sad times when passing ruffians can bolt at will.

Started on Crusing, then Jills Thrill and Uprising. Nice chill mellow day, it was clouldy and chilly to start around noon, but it warmed up and the clouds burned off. The SE corner was a zoo.

 

 

BOO fucking HOO!!!! What kind of purist bad ass do you think you are?!?!!? No wonder its so fucking easy to knock guys like stevetimetravlr and summitchasercbj!!!!!! SUCK IT DOUCHE!!!!!

[Mr. Hands]

You didn't get any consensus about what you did not changing the route for this community. I even wrote a 6 point argument stating why you should not retrobolt Young Warriors and as far as I heard, everyone but you agreed with me. For me, you changed the feel of the route irreparably by altering it's history which is something I appreciate deeply about the climb - SO FUCK YOU! One more time, FUCK YOU, FUCK YOU AND YOUR ASS FACE, FUCK YOU. And one more thing, let's go climbing next time I'm back in town, but none the less, FUCK YOU!

Sigh. Let's see, that's now three of you who don't seem to know what retrobolting means. So, have you climbed YW this season? Yes? No? Oh, and if you had a name you'd at least stand some chance I'd give a wit about what you think; as it is you might as well be pissing on your keyboard and monitor.

 

My identity is not a secret, if you read threads that are not pissing matches you'd know me:

 

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/963690/Fare_thee_well_bruddah#Post963690

 

 

UMMM ya your ID is still secret in that link... What are you... A COP?!?!?!?!?!

[JosephH]

Its that he jumps all over everyone else for doing exactly what he does, no one is allowed to make the judgement calls but him. That's not OK.

but joseph seems to have a "ruling class" mentality... like he knows what's best for everyone and is smarter on almost every level. it all sounds very exhausting to me.

Hmmm, maybe you missed this upthread:

 

No entitlement involved. You want to take a shot at getting the closure lifted or modified? Have at it. Clean out one of the column routes? Very cool! I have a tool set just for that you're welcome to use. An anchor, pin, or bolt needs replacing? I have plenty of hangars, bolts, pins, rings, and slings available for you to use and a drill and hammer if you need one. Trash needs to be picked up? Pick it up and haul it out. Big, bad loose rock juju somewhere? Sort out a strategy for dealing with it safely with the BRSP. Need any help doing any of the above? Pm me here, I'm up for it.