Guidebook Values

[kevbone]

How is it the one Oregon crag that doesn't result in online bicker-fests is the only one that ranks as a world-class area? Or is that just because all those arguments got settled with fisticuffs in the parking lot and at the Grasslands back in the 80s and 90s?

 

Your kidding right? smithrock.com has plenty of bitchfests that go on there.

[Checat]

second that, not to mention in the park itself.

[johndavidjr]

"Such a lot of nonesense!" --Sir John Gielgud as Edward Ryder, BBC, 1981

[Hugh Conway]

what are some examples of the "bad" or heavy guidebooks?

 

Most every guidbook published since the mid90s?

 

Classic guidebook proportions are best represented by the Canadian rockies trail/scrambling ice guides. Small, compact, useful. I believe this size is less popular because of publisher demands.

[mattp]

Fred Beckey's Cascade Alpine Guide(s) gets my vote as the best guide ever.

 

Yes, there are some errors in there and sometimes he incorporates feedback from climbers that renders newer editions less accurate than prior with respect to a route here and there, but he DOES try to update the guide in each successive edition. Yes, the books are heavy, but he includes history (not only the climbing history but the historical history) and in addition to this he presents detailed route information and carefully selected pictures. These books reflect a dedication to the book in a way that few guidebooks ever do.

 

I use Fred Beckey's books as a climbing guide AND for bedside reading. The Cascade Alpine Guide rules!

 

Second place goes to Clint Cummins' Index guide from the 1990's I loved the format - simple and very straight forward - and accurrate. I loved his philosopphy as presented in the first couple of pages: feel free to copy this guide and pass it on. I use the Cramer guide when I climb there today and it is an excellent guide as well.

 

I like most guidebooks and these are two that in some ways repesent bookends. Simple vs. encyclopedic.

[Checat]

As far as new guides-

 

For the out of state visitor to Smith - Wolverine Publishing's select is great. Will only get you on so many routes though - but for the routes it covers and cost, great.

 

Extreme Angles (publishing) is making the best new guides IMO. Their Needles guide is great. Seemless incorporation of history, ethics and local lore, all through full page photography including vintage shots and fun stuff. I haven't picked up their Vedauwoo guide but I've heard its quality.

 

Candidates for low-quality for the price tag - Binghams City of Rocks.

 

Used to be a big fan of Greg Orton's series until he started re-charging the same 20-60 bucks for the same routes every 5 years. New guide, new material. Why else would you expect people to pony up more dough?

 

When Tim Olson omitted Madrone Wall from his latest editions, you figure he did it because the area had been closed, but now unless you have his original edition - a lot of people are going to have to pony up again for route info decades old. Slightly cheeky if it was money based but I'm sure that wasn't his motivation. Guidebook authors that are money-driven - no way?

 

 

One of my first guidebooks and still one of my favorites- despite its confusing times:

[Off_White]

Candidates for low-quality for the price tag - Binghams City of Rocks.

 

Well, see, I like that guide. I especially like that Bingham tells the history of chipping/gluing/artificial holds that doesn't reflect well on himself. Way better than the Phony Tony Calderone guide to the area.

 

CAG volumes are really reference books, one inevitably winds up with xerox copies of certain pages when out in the field. They're encyclopedic, and full of detail, but sometimes glaringly wrong wrong wrong, or often merely vague and fuzzy. Still, that seems entirely appropriate for the range, and the breadth of research involved across history/geography/geology/ is really impressive. I'd have to say that I love those guides too.

[Off_White]

Oh, and as far as the money aspect of guides go, there are few authors who've ever made better than minimum wage putting out those things, I think they're all labors of love rather than profit centers. Sure, there is ego involved to varying degrees, but a person without ego is pretty damned boring at a party.

[Checat]

Interesting. I didn't realize the alternative for Binghams was worse. You are right in regard to his explanations of the chipping, gluing stuff in regard to the Competition wall. I think he even talked about Yaniro's Gym (idaho/oregon border, the worst of the chipped, glued stuff).

 

For its cost and the number of pages I guess I would have rather seen something that had less routes and more description and focus on quality routes. He did break off a fair amount of the COR, and tried to give climbers options to drive out to the middle of nowhere and find crags where there weren't lines- that's a bonus. It just seems like as a guidebook it underscores amazing routes and doesn't provide much for guidance towards the most quality lines.

 

I don't live in Idaho. I wouldn't even know how it is in comparison to other COR guides, because its the only COR guide I have.

[johndavidjr]

Little to compare with scholarly CAGs, though I've been impressed with Elaho Publishing in Canada.

 

Never seen a guidebook I didn't want to read, thought some do insult one's intelligence.

 

Not thrilled by "Scrambling Guide" to Washington, or whatever t'was called.... ("Who should scramble?"!!??!) nor actually, for related reasons, the "Potter" books. Something about a commercial mind-set of the authors, sub-concious or otherwise.

 

Conversely, am liking the latest coffe-table guidebooks. Lots of nice photos where you can sometimes see acquaintences... and amusing completely adolescent design & editing values.

 

There ought to be published a history of the blood actually drawn over guidebook publishing...

[genepires]

You guys have some hard qualifications for a guidebook. I look for a book that shows the routes and helps get me it done. With those needs, almost all guidebooks are good. The only book that I am not thrilled about is the can. rockies alpine select guidebook due to serious sandbagging and just plain wrong information.

 

If you are looking for great reading, why are you looking at guidebooks written by climbers? Go to the library and find the classics instead for your cerebral needs.

[Checat]

For most of the guidebooks I'm addressing they are very specific to the regions, areas and crags that they cover, thus guidebooks written by climbers. As far as major complaints my only gripe with most of those are they're price tag for the number, type and quality of routes they describe.

 

If I'm paying roughly the same or more for the entire SW Oregon climbing series (60 bones) as Watts new Smith Guide shouldn't I expect the same amazing upgrades and increased route count as Watts was able to do? If he can do it, why can't I expect the same of other guidebook authors?

 

If I want cerebral needs met I'd probably reread Don Mellor's American Rock or Laura and Guy Watermans stuff, or even guidebooks to areas like the Gunks or the Dacks.

 

To defend "Scramble" guides- there is a great one the Columbia River Gorge that describes obscure towers, gullies and other monstrosities. Its a little niche, not even being to a mountain system but still a great guide for Oregonians and Washingtonians.