We're So Sorry!

[pope]

Special Ed,

You don't know from Paul Boving. Outer Space is a casual route for anybody with granite experience. I've climbed it in the rain. I've climbed it with a pack. I've climbed it with a girl. I've simo-climbed most of it. I've climbed it 3rd-class about four times. I've climbed it with a rope about 35(?) times, and there is nothing special about these facts.

Nevertheless, for a sport climber, it's a feather in your cap, a notch in your chockbag belt, a trophy for your mantle. You just have to get past those disgusting girly photos stashed on Library Ledge.

[ScottP]

quote:

---

Originally posted by lambone:

P.S.

Todd Skiner already worked on Town Crier and said it was a choss heap.

---

 

A common response when someone can't free a route...

 

[mikeadam]

The Nose on El Cap is a choss heap!! Scott Burk didn't agree with me though...

[Cpt.Caveman]

Yeah I agree about the Nose, all of El Cap is choss too. Just dont ask those 2 brothers from Uberland

[Guest]

Or that brazen wench Lynn Hill

[pope]

It goes boys!

[Cpt.Caveman]

Yeah I like that name SprayLord!

[Dwayner]

Brother Special-ED:

Trust me. Mighty Paul Boving died on THIN FINGERS at INDEX. I was around and climbing at that time and everybody was bummed. He was a good guy, a funny guy, and he didn't have his head lodged up his bum (not until he hit the ledge, at least). Anybody over 30 knows the Paul Boving story. It must have been around 1978 or so.

Raise a pint to Mighty Paul

Zipped his pro and took a fall.

Few like him since, sorry to say.

-Dwayner

[crazyjizzy]

Oct. '77

[Lambone]

For all you guys who think I am a total loser.

First, I can't beleive you took me seriously.

Second, your Trad Klan can go to hell.

Third, to give you a little background:

I was born the same month Paul fell off Thin Fingers. I led my first climb, on Trad gear when I was thirteen. That was 10 years ago.

I climbed my first grade four in the Valley when I was sixteen. I didn't really start sport climbing until I came to Washington two years ago. I'm not the best, in fact I am mearly mediocere. But I sure as hell ain't no sport weenie. And even if I was, who cares, sport weenies can be great.

I like sport climbing, I like bouldering, I like trad, and Alpine. I like the Himilayas, and I love Yosemite. I am even begining to like Washington.

My point is that I love all aspects of climbing, except the old school Trad bastards who think they are gods gift to the rock. I could go off for hours....

 

I was mocking that crowd, and Dwayner. Because he thinks he has sooooo much to teach me. I'd like to go climbing with him sometime to find out who is the one that needs a schooling.

Peace-have fun out there, the weather is good, it's summer again! See you on the rock. Smile....

-matt

 

[pope]

Imer Bone,

So, you like sport climbing. I just knew it, the whole time you were pulling my leg. Gee. Gee wiz. You're clever. Just in case you subconsciously want to be a hardman, bad-assed tradster, just in case you're pulling your own leg, I would sugggest that your affinity for shiny bolts and sport-speak (red point, pink point, purple point, brown point, etc.) will pass. I mean, I used to like boys, especially choir boys, but I soon realized how much shame I had been suppressing, and hey, girls are sufficiently cute. Donna helped me figure out that about myself. Like my naughty secret, your interest in sport climbing is something that will pass.

But, I've got to say, on behalf of those who responded to your questions, we are big, powerful, important, and busy people who have ambitious itineraries. We could have thumbed our noses at you and your pathetic condition, but we feel we've got an obligation to perpetuate a few values. Someday, when you really need our help, when you know you're ready to step up to the trad-climbing plate, you might not find us to be so sympathetic.

 

[Retrosaurus]

quote:

---

Originally posted by lambone:

My point is that I love all aspects of climbing, except the old school Trad bastards who think they are gods gift to the rock. I could go off for hours.... -matt

---

You are wrong. We are not God's gift to the rock; the rock is God's gift to us.

Sport Mo's need to quit spraying stainless steel all over it.

[Lambone]

Pope, you have got to be kidding me, are you really that full of yourself. If you have such an important itinerary, what the hell are you wasting your time on this web site for? I do 'cause it makes me laugh. People like you are a joke!

What values? Making fun of people who like to do something that you don't agree with. Are those your valuble traits? Typical Trad climber values are bullshit ego trips.

I can say this because I've been there. I was a youngster with a shiny rack of nuts and hexs long ago. I don't find any value in knocking other climbers who are weaker or more afraid than us.

Oooooh, you think your a hard man cause you climbed Outerspace in the rain... Ohhh you run out the rope sooooo far. Your sooooo tough. Your not afraid of anything! You don't need no stinking bolts!

Yeah, I bet Paul Boving wasn't afraid of Thin Fingers, until he slipped.... You will slip one day too, everyone does.

The day I come looking for your help is the day I quit climbing.

[Lambone]

P.S. Special Ed is the only one who posted on this thread who knows what the hell he is talking about.

Blodgett is the bomb. Montana makes Washington look like a baby's butt. Glacier, The Beartooths, Blodgett. Montana rocks. Although Wyoming is pretty cool too. The Winds baby...

[pope]

Young man,

My response to your peek-a-boo-I'm-not-really-a-pussy post....was intended to be humorous, just kidding around, the way I thought your original post in this thread was light-hearted. Trust me, I'm not into myself, and I think climbing is one of the least important things in life. Climbing is just for fun, just recreation, and your notion that I give a flying fu@k how you climb is a mistaken notion.

You may notice that my posts to this site are just potty talk, smart-alecky stuff with which I intend only to entertain myself and anybody else who thinks it's funny. I don't solo Outer Space these days, and I don't even run it out much. I'm a father of a child who needs me to be around this world for a few more years, and so although I used to take pride in climbing in complete control at a grade I could honestly handle, regardless of the protection, these days I'm a quivering fear freak. Survival instincts man.

But that doesn't mean I'll clip bolts. Bolts are equivalent to metalic fecal matter...those who place them on rap, without giving the rock a chance, are RAPING the rock. It's not about conceit; it's about an idea that the cliffs should be preserved in their natural state. It's about a theory that a top-rope is superior to permanently defacing the rock with rap bolts. What's so arrogant about wanting to preserve natural beauty?

 

[Lambone]

Dwayner and Pope,

Hey Pops, it sounds like you have been climbing since before I was born, and for that I give you props (rent "Boys in the Hood" or something).

My whole beef with you in the first place was about your slander of other climbers. You are the one who needs to learn to accept the reality of this day and age.

Lets say I was one pitch up on you on some long route. I'll give you your space anytime of the day. Hell I'd even let an old dog like you pass me if you were on my tail. But start making fun of me cause I have some quickdraws on my harness and I'll piss on your head.

Your comments about the rock fest pissed me off. And I think they would piss off any boulderer as well. Do you think that attitude is going to earn the respect from the youth? I know people who want to retro-bolt run out leads just to spite people with attitudes like yours.

When I see an old timer at the crag, I don't think WOW cool, I bet I could learn something from that guy. I think shit I better not talk to him cause he doesn't want me here.

The "Trad Klans" "not in my backyard" attitude has got to go. It is as outdated as racism. This is the time of a new generation, you're old school. You're history. Rather than be negative and slander new climbers, why don't you try and do something positive with your experience. Open yourself up and show people why you wan't to preserve the roots of rock climbing.

That is why I want to contribute to rock fest; To do what I can to pass on my knowledge to people less experienced than I. I want to show people how to get off a route in an emergency without using their cell phones. Sure I'd rather be climbing, but I enjoy teaching if it benefits the climbing community, even in a small way.

The Trad climbing community (at least you guys) are unwelcoming and snobish. You do nothing to benefit the cause of traditional climbing (the roots). You intimidate people to boost your own ego. And scare others away. The irony is that your roots are going to be buried with you. Because you are to "tough" to share them.

P.S. I'd like to see Donna top step.

[Lambone]

[ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: lambone ]

[Retrosaurus]

Hey Bonehead,

It's only slander if it's not true.

Nothing stings like the truth.

Grow some values.

[Lambone]

Ok, fair enough.

But remember, I never said I was for or against placing bolts. I'm keeping my mouth shut about that one. I clip 'um but I don't drill 'um. And I enjoy it, cause they enable me to experience all kinds of rock. Don't knock my values.

I'm talking about a much bigger picture here.

[Dwayner]

Iambone:

Come step outside for a second, and here, down a couple of these sedatives. O.K., ready to talk? Good. Guess what, junior, there are a few things you need to understand. Those of us who are big-time trad advocates don't like what we see. Your comment that we "should accept the reality of this day and age" makes no sense to us. (Apply that logic to 1939 Germany...it's a ridiculous statement.) We care for the rock and the environment. Many of us look at the routine practices of the sport-climbing crowd (rampant bolting and overcrowding, for example) as the callous disregard for G-d's natural gift in order to satisfy the ego's of the practionioners of an arguably dubious pursuit. Even leaving G-d and nature out of it, some of us see sport-climbing as the pathetic bastard offspring of a noble tradition. We see no reason to endorse this and "open ourselves up to" something we consider weak and bogus. It's a difference of opinion, pal, and guess what...it's not a knee-jerk opinion arrived at yesterday!!! The fact is, I've been climbing longer than you've been alive, and was fortunate enough to have begun during the wonderful transition between the age of pitons and birth of clean-climbing. The clean-climbing ethic was one of personal integrity, and every bolt, (as has been said by others on this list before) was an ethical decision. Climbs could be accomplished if one was up to the challenge, rather than bringing the climb down to one's level by bolting, allowing unlimited rehersals, etc.

You are welcome to climb as your please, and we are welcome to think it's admirable or lame or more likely, not give a rat's rear what you, yourself, do.

You are 23 years old. You have a lot to learn. Yes, some of us trad-dudes believe we have a superior environmental and sporting ethic, and we will continue to try to pass our traditional viewpoints on to the younger generations, and you can accept it or reject it as you please. We aren't keeping you from doing anything although excessive bolting will cause "The Man" to step-in. If you think we're arrogant, fine, but in the meantime, I hope you realize that many of us care enough about the environment, our beloved pastime, and even YOU to want to share our ways. Call us missionaries; perhaps you'll convert.

Sincerely,

Dwayner

P.S. You're obviously youthful retorts to the likes of Mr. Pope were a bit much. I hope you are mature enough to understand the passion I read in his serious response to you.

[Guest]

Hey Iambone!

Donna Top-Step doesn't want to see you!

P.S. Good comments, guys! Give that young stud an education!

Love,

Donna

[Lambone]

Dr. Dwayner,

Ok, fine. I see where you are coming from. You still don't want to accept that being nice to people (in this case climbers), is the best way to gain their respect. You may hate sport climbers, but they are going to hate you back as long as you keep it up. It's ok, I know it is sometimes difficult for old people to open up to new ideas, but if you really want to see a change you will have to put one foot forward also.

People will argue for and against bolts, same as abortion, till the day we both die.

What about this then. Why is that you scoff at boulderers. They do not scar the rock, other than chalk. They do no permenent damage. Their form of climbing is pure. Purer than that of one Trad climber who uses a rope, etc. Why must you disgrace their passion? What makes their passion so different from yours? Why not show prospective sport climbers where the bouldering is, if it will keep them from clipping bolts. What is really so bad about a boulder tour of Leavenworth. Andy is a nice guy. He likes to help people out, he's voulenteering his time. Why is that lame?

Is it because he wants to "clue" people in? Are you one of those Trad clowns that thinks everything should be kept a secret? Shh, don't tell anyone about it, "not in my back yard!"

Think back to your previous remarks. Why do you mock boulderers? I don't get your motivation? I do not consider myself a real boulderer, because I am not passionet about it. But my freinds are. They are good people, and you have insulted them, more than once. In turn you have offended me, and done a disservice to the community. Why should I not stand up for them, and our beliefs. Just cause your old school doesn't mean you are allways right.

Tell me O great one. Sit me down on your lap once more. Justify your love for spray!

P.S.- pope can suck it!

 

[This message has been edited by lambone (edited 05-31-2001).]

[Lambone]

No Donna, you have mistaken me. I don't want to see you. I want to see you top step, on something other than slab. I could care less about what you look like. From pope's discription I'd rather go to the zoo.

 

[Lambone]

Hey, all you so called environmentalist Trad climbers. Just in case you didn't notice...

There are much bigger issues to bitch about than little bolts on a rock face that nobody (except climbers)give a shit about. Bolts harm nothing but the value that humans place upon the aestheics of nature.

Personaly, when I go up to Index I am so struck by the huge quarry scar that I hardly notice the bolts. When the train roles by I can hardly hear the crowds below.

If you think sport climbers are the biggest threat to your precious little cragging environment, you should dig a little deeper.

If you were true environmentalist than you would quit your selfish climbing endeavors and spend your time doing something actively beneficial for the evironment. Think about that next time you load up the SUV and head out to Leavenworth. You talk about your values... well, show me the money!

[This message has been edited by lambone (edited 05-31-2001).]

[pope]

So, bolts aren't the most environmentally pathetic thing you see around Index. True enough. But listen to yourself: you are a fraction of a step from justifying rock rape by the existence of some greater tragedy. That's like asserting that talking with a mouth full of food is OK since your buddy is picking his nose.

May I direct you to one of your previous posts in which you express disbelief that anybody was taking seriously your questions about admission to the Trad Kings? Is it possible that all of the jabs at sport climbing are also intended to be humorous? And by the way, I've spent many days passing down my values and understanding of this sport to youngsters such as yourself. If you feel animosity every time you see an "old timer" out at the crags, perhaps you're allowing a bad experience to project hostility unfairly onto an entire demographic. Perhaps this hostility toward "trad climbers" prevents you from perceiving how evil bolts really are. Perhaps this hostility is something you have developed in defense of your bolt clippin' ways.

I'm sorry to have pissed you off, but maybe it's the fault of my beliefs about bolting more than my personality or communication skills.....Also, when you meet Donna, you'll change your mind!