Dane Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 "Aermet is an ultra-high strength type of martensitic alloy steel. The main alloying elements are cobalt and nickel, but chromium, molybdenum, and carbon are also added. Its exceptional properties are hardness, tensile strength, fracture toughness, and ductility. Aermet is not corrosion resistant so it must be sealed if used in a moist environment. It is a registered trademark of Carpenter Technology Corporation." For those that might be interested in BD compatible picks. I am about to move from prototypes to production on a hybrid pick designed specifically for BD shaft attachments made from Aermet. BD in the past has made and offered Aermet picks but is no longer doing so. Those picks are still highly sought after pieces of specialised technical kit. That production is now years old and as is noted above Aermet is not stainless and will corrode if exposed to moisture. The stress risers in any pick design increase as the picks age from time and use and corrosion occurs. Aermet offers some distinct advantages for durability in ice tool picks. Downside is Aermet in raw form is very expensive and more importantly extremely difficult to machine. Because of that manufacturing costs are high. Retail for the BD compatible Aermet picks will be around $100. Similar to where BD had them priced in their last production. Aermet will offer a much longer service life over the OEM item. It would be a big help to me if you would offer your thoughts on the project here I'm also going to be offering a bolt on Nomic hammer/pick conversion and a small adze/hammer conversion for the Quark shortly. Other projects in the works as well for production modifications to update a few specific models of older tools. Pictures coming asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I've still got mine - and they are still in awesome shape after all these years. They are worth the price - just keep up on sharpening them because if you let it go, it can be a pain in the butt to file them. I had mine professionally sharpened and they are pretty much like new. I'd offer a warranty against broken picks to take the edge of the steep price tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Expected ship date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurthicks Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm psyched to see the protos Dane. Are they going to be shaped like Lasers or Alaskan or Titan picks? I gather that they're going to be $100 each from you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainwreck Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 awesome dane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Thanks for the feedback guys. Let me answer what I can at the moment. "I'd offer a warranty against broken picks to take the edge of the steep price tag." Thought about that. Problem is with all the mixed stuff people are doing, picks now take some really serious abuse. Having sharpened a few that have been through that and even seen bent Petzl Quad picks and broken Titans picks and the thinner water ice picks from both companies used on hard rock I don't think it is reasonable (cost wise) to offer a free replacement pick program. But I might offer a discounted replacment program if a broken pick is returned. I (we all do) pretty much know the standards I am looking for in durability. If the picks don't meet that I won't be selling them. Been a while since BD offered the Aermet picks. And as Layton has said they were good. Manufacturing techniques have since improved. I am hoping for an even more durable pick. Last I remember BD charged $75 for the Aermet picks and that was 20 years ago. So $100 is really a deal if we can afford to make and sell them at that price. If they are as good as I think they are a time defined free replacement program might well be in order. Something I want to do and do now on other parts we make from Aermet. "Are they going to be shaped like Lasers or Alaskan or Titan picks?" Two versions at least, rock and ice. Think BD Laser/Titan and Petzl Quad/Cascade styles. But both versions will be a little different that the standard BD offerings. A hybrid of sorts as to what is offered now. A pick designed specifically for longevity and performance. Which are not contradictory goals imo. "They are worth the price - just keep up on sharpening them because if you let it go, it can be a pain in the butt to file them. I had mine professionally sharpened and they are pretty much like new." At least you'll know where they can be sharpened "Expected ship date?" Maybe as soon as Christmas '09 for the first batch. Getting the heat treat sorted out this week. "I gather that they're going to be $100 each from you?" At least at first they will only be available through me. We'll have a web site for climbing specific gear up soon and accept PayPal. How the pricing shakes out depends on demand (more sold the cheaper they will be) and any unforseen issues. Although obviously not required I'm pretty excited about a pair of them on these in the alpine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdk Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 What kind of quality control or testing do you plan on doing, if any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 The Material is sourced from the manufacture, Carpenter Technology Corporation in this case and delivered directly to our shop. All mill work and heat treat is done in house currently. Although the heat treat and cold quench is very complicated and will eventually be jobed out. Every piece is physically RC tested in house @ 2 places on the pick. Physical testing is months old and real life to failure. In other words I will know exactly what it takes to break one of these picks....in a vise in the shop with a pipe on the handle as a lever or torqued with two teeth in a crack climbing. If the product isn't a good deal more reliable than what is currently available I won't offer it. More detail on Aermet 100 we are using for pick manufacture. http://www.cartech.com/techarticles.aspx?id=1466 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdk Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Dane, Any updates on the status of your new picks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnManMatt Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Cool! I have a couple pair that I acquired over the past few years at a good price. I used a pair on a Denali/Cassin trip when I didn't want to deal with a broken pick or carry one, although I've never broken a BD pick (and I'm not careful removing stuck tools). Having used the old AerMets, my only criticism is that they don't dry tool very well due to the hardness of the metal i.e. they're not like the "sticky rubber" feel of the OEM softer metals. Way to give the big boys some competition too! You've probably already considered it, but any chance BD might give you trouble for using their pick interface? I'm keeping my mouth shut... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 BD loves us So no worries there. Dry tooling and really hard steels aren't all that compatible as you've obviously noticed. I think you'll find our version more akin to a "sticky aermet" in comparison to the original BD picks. Our tooth and pick design is also slightly different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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