Post Election spray topics

[Kimmo]

Didn't you guys abandon science, too? I remember something about not believing in vaccines.

 

 

I don't know what bonehead's take on vaccines was/is, but to indiscriminately accept the current establishment doctrine concerning vaccines is rather....unscientific.

[rob]

Didn't you guys abandon science, too? I remember something about not believing in vaccines.

 

 

I don't know what bonehead's take on vaccines was/is, but to indiscriminately accept the current establishment doctrine concerning vaccines is rather....unscientific.

 

Curious -- does this mean you don't think vaccines work? Or, just that you don't think people should have them?

 

Are you one of those people that believe vaccines cause autism? Cause THAT'S pretty unscientific.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Didn't you guys abandon science, too? I remember something about not believing in vaccines.

 

 

I don't know what bonehead's take on vaccines was/is, but to indiscriminately accept the current establishment doctrine concerning vaccines is rather....unscientific.

 

Curious -- does this mean you don't think vaccines work? Or, just that you don't think people should have them?

 

Are you one of those people that believe vaccines cause autism? Cause THAT'S pretty unscientific.

 

we should only believe science when it tells us the glaciers are melting but not when it tells us that vaccination works.

[Kimmo]

Curious -- does this mean you don't think vaccines work? Or, just that you don't think people should have them?

 

Are you one of those people that believe vaccines cause autism? Cause THAT'S pretty unscientific.

 

oh i'm convinced vaccines work. and have worked effectively to eliminate certain catastrophic illnesses. there seems to be no real question about that. my concern is the number of vaccines that the orthodoxy pushes parents to get all at once, and also the types of vaccines (hep b vaccines one day after birth? let's wait til she entertains notions of iv drug use first! and chicken pox? come on now....).

 

another concern i have is again in conjunction with the amount of vaccines administered concurrently: most if not all vaccines contain aluminum (mercury has mostly been removed); just last night at PEPS, someone from microsoft mentioned their child being diagnosed and treated for aluminum toxicity after multiple vaccine administration. i'm still trying to get all the specifics to confirm the authenticity of the claim, but still of at least a little concern to me....

 

 

and, i think the link between autism and vaccines is quite inconclusive, and warrants further study. the alarming increase in autism itself is reason enough to look at any possible source, including vaccines.

[olyclimber]

i found just the person to continues these studies!

 

[rob]

Sounds reasonable.

 

I think the link (or lack of, rather) between autism and vaccines is pretty conclusive. There have been so many HUGE studies on it lately that I'm not sure how much more data people want.

 

I'm not sure what the "orthodoxy" is. When I had my kids vaccinated, my Dr. (at VM, not some quack) told me which vaccines she felt were vital, and which ones were more of a convenience. They didn't just pump them full of everything.

 

What is PEPS?

Edited June 24, 2009 by rob

[Kimmo]

link me towards the huge studies; i'd be interested in looking at them.

 

yeah and "orthodoxy" in seattle is a little different, but the national standard per CDC and AAP is rather daunting, to say the least, and probably different that what your pediatrician recommended. check out their website!

 

PEPS is a parent group of sorts, newbie parents getting together and socializing, talking about challenges, what works, what doesn't, etc etc. been really cool to be a part of for the first 5 months of little bear's life.

[minx]

3 links to review articles which summarize the evidence AGAINST a relationship between vaccination and autism. they review data from multiple sources and studies which are sited in the articles for your further review.

 

those of you who do not vaccinate your children but the rest of our children at risk for serious diseases.

 

 

other reason likely for autism

 

a review of MMR and autism

 

thimerosal containing vaccines...review article no links

[kevbone]

How did we get so serious?

[minx]

b/c its an important subject and one i particularly care about...sorry for giving a shit

[Kimmo]

those of you who do not vaccinate your children but the rest of our children at risk for serious diseases.

 

how does this work?

 

 

i'll take a look at your links when i have time; thanks.

 

 

[minx]

i'm not the best at explaining but look up the term "herd immunity"

 

 

[Kimmo]

done that, but didn't have the same take as you. and as far as giving a shit, me too, and that's why we are being so careful with how and when and with what we go about immunizing our child.

[minx]

same take as me????

 

its not something to have an opinion on, its science. herd immunity isn't some random cocktail party hypothesis.

 

OK>..if you care so much why are you ignoring the science? i just do not understand this. i used to work in this field. i find it shocking that people think this way still.

[Kimmo]

yes, your take. why don't you explain your take? and if you're not good at explaining your take, maybe your understanding is deficient, and needs a little improvement?

 

and if you don't understand something as elemental as people having differing opinions about even the "scientific method" itself, then we might have difficulty having a fruitful exchange.

 

and you seemed like such a nice person!

[Bosterson]

I think her point about un-immunized children posing a risk is that if you and a bunch of other people decide not to immunize, you lower the rate of herd immunity, possibly below its optimal threshold, which would then allow diseases to spread more easily.

[minx]

alright this is one of those subjects like climate change that just gets under my skin.

 

 

what evidence have you seen that vaccines contribute to autism. there isn't a single study out there that was even remotely controlled that shows a link between autism and vaccines. in fact there isn't even one particular line of research that people can follow to connect those dots. is it thimerosal (a preservative) gee...no thats not it. most vaccines don't even have it anymore! is it bacterial infection from MMMR? nope...thats been discounted. so why the heck do you people not vaccinate? there is no causal link at all, none!

 

go someplace and look at the ravages of not vaccinating and then tell me you're doing the right thing by your child. there are plenty of other more realistic theories relating to the genetics and environment of kids with autism.

 

are you really so scared of things that you will cling to any security blanket that the internet hands you? "oh if i don't vaccinate my child won't get autism b/c thats what some folks posted on the internet based on unreliable antectodal evidence" accck!!!

[minx]

thank you bosterson.

 

i am not good at summarizing things. the written word is not one of my strengths kimmo. i understand the concept just fine thankyouverymuch.

 

and please, me a nice person, no one should ever think that.

 

and i always love the justification, "well not very many people don't vaccinate so its not a problem"

 

so basically what you're saying is that you want just enough people doing what you consider to be the wrong thing to protect your kid from disease. great isn't that an extra special level of selfish.

[Kimmo]

I think her point about un-immunized children posing a risk is that if you and a bunch of other people decide not to immunize, you lower the rate of herd immunity, possibly below its optimal threshold, which would then allow diseases to spread more easily.

 

if that were the case, then her child would be safe, since it was immunized.

[Bosterson]

something as elemental as people having differing opinions about even the "scientific method" itself

 

Are we talking about disagreements on how to interpret statistical results (probabilities, error boundaries, etc.)? Or do you have some sort of fundamental problem with the scientific method (eg, solipsism)?

[minx]

kimmo read my above post and go read up more on the complete mechanism of vaccine protection not just the immunology 101 level you've been given but what ever hocus pocus groups/websites you've been reading.

[Kimmo]

alright this is one of those subjects like climate change that just gets under my skin.

 

 

what evidence have you seen that vaccines contribute to autism. there isn't a single study out there that was even remotely controlled that shows a link between autism and vaccines. in fact there isn't even one particular line of research that people can follow to connect those dots. is it thimerosal (a preservative) gee...no thats not it. most vaccines don't even have it anymore! is it bacterial infection from MMMR? nope...thats been discounted. so why the heck do you people not vaccinate? there is no causal link at all, none!

 

go someplace and look at the ravages of not vaccinating and then tell me you're doing the right thing by your child. there are plenty of other more realistic theories relating to the genetics and environment of kids with autism.

 

are you really so scared of things that you will cling to any security blanket that the internet hands you? "oh if i don't vaccinate my child won't get autism b/c thats what some folks posted on the internet based on unreliable antectodal evidence" accck!!!

 

it seems to me that you might be best served by going back and reading my posts, since you seem to be lacking in any understanding of my position regarding autism.

[Bosterson]

I think her point about un-immunized children posing a risk is that if you and a bunch of other people decide not to immunize, you lower the rate of herd immunity, possibly below its optimal threshold, which would then allow diseases to spread more easily.

 

if that were the case, then her child would be safe, since it was immunized.

 

Immunity is not 100%, but really what you seem to be implying is that we should only look out for our own self-interest.

 

If your kid has some candy, I'm totally stealing it.

[jon]

Has anyone tried a nice single malt lately?

 

yes, but it was really good and i drank a lot and don't remember its name

 

There is a MacCallan 12YO that you can only get at the duty free that is f'ing awesome.

[Kimmo]

something as elemental as people having differing opinions about even the "scientific method" itself

 

Are we talking about disagreements on how to interpret statistical results (probabilities, error boundaries, etc.)? Or do you have some sort of fundamental problem with the scientific method (eg, solipsism)?

 

both, and then some.