What do you guys use for your rap rope?

[scm007]

What do you guys typically bring for a 2nd rap rope?

[TarHeelEMT]

If you're bringing a second rope for rappelling, wouldn't you just want to use twin ropes?

[Maxtrax]

It's a lighter overall system to bring a lightweight single and tag line than a pair of doubles or twins. Most guys I know use a 6mm or 7mm perlon tagline, I personally have a 6mm although the one time I carried it we decided it would be easier to pull if we just made 30m raps instead of full length raps so I never ended up using it. Here's a quick list of advantages that I thought of for each system:

 

Single + tagline

pros

-lighter overall

-slightly easier rope management/faster belay changeovers

-more straightforward to set up a haul on a hard pitch

 

Doubles/Halves or Twins

-more insurance if there is damage to your lead line

-easier to simul rap

-need fewer long slings for wandering routes

[genepires]

one advantage of using doubles over a single with a extra rap line is that somone has to carry that rap line while climbing. Plus there is a rope creep tendancy when you rappel with ropes of different diameters (10mm and a 7mm rap line) You don't get that with doubles.

 

I don't think the weight difference justifies carrying a single/rap line vs. a set of doubles due to the convience of using doubles. The rope management thing is remedied with experience and using ropes of same length and manufacturer. You got it in the hauling though. Would hate to jumar or haul with a double rope.

 

just a personal choice. really both are fine with their own pro and con.

[scm007]

What's the best way to prevent rope creep, or do you just make sure to monitor as you rap? I've heard of people tying knots as stoppers, but that seems counterproductive when you are trying to pull the rope.

[genepires]

good question. I can't remember which way it creeps right now (too early and I haven't rapped on dissimilar ropes for a while) but the trick is to position the knot so that when it creeps, it jams into the rappel ring (or sling or biner) and not go any farther.

 

I think more of the little diameter rope slips through the belay device than the thick diameter rope. so if the knot was positioned with the thin rope through the ring (or sling which could burn he sling) then the knot will creep down away from the ring. This would cause uneven rope ends also. (knots in end of rope are very important!) I am not sure how you could put knots in the rope near the anchor to prevent from creeping and still be able to get it down. Maybe what you heard was them doing what I was talking about above.

 

I seem to remember being able to minimize it also by keeping one hand tightly on the two ropes above the belay device so they didn't slip.

 

We used to climb on singles and bring a rap line when doubles were 9mm and we were broke. When I got some money and equipment deals and doubles went to 8mm, it seemed like a good idea to just get doubles. But when you are strapped for cash, you gotta go what you can the get down.

[wdietsch]

[letsroll]

I have been using a 5 mill tag line as a single rap rope. Works great but can be a cluster if you don't manage. Like to knot is self up real good.

 

When taging with larger diameter in the alpine it won't matter where the knot is, it will travel. Minimize this by letting out more of the skinnier rope than the fatter one as you rap. You will not prevent rope creep but it will help. If rapping off chains put the knot on the skinny side every time and the know will stop the creep.

[letsroll]

 

I like it. I am going to try that out next time. Great solution.

[Farrgo]

Last year when I was buying a new rope system I did the math on this whole single, twin, double debate. Single + tag line is the absolute lightest IF you buy the spectra 5.5 as your tag line. Keep in mind this will cost you about 2x the cost of a single line. Twin ropes will be lighter if you opt for a single + 6mm tag line. Double ropes are definately heavier.

 

Here's the math:

Mammut Serenity 70m @ 52g/m = 8 lbs

Spectra 5.5mm 70m @ 16g/m = 2.5 lbs

6mm cord 70m @ 26g/m = 4 lbs

Mammut Phoenix (dbl) 140m @ 41g/m = 12.7

Beal Ice Twin 140m @ 37g/m = 11.4 lbs

 

Single + Spectra = 10.5 lbs

Twins = 11.4 lbs

Single + 6mm = 12 lbs

Double = 12.7 lbs

 

Some newer ropes may have come out, but when I did these calculations these were the lightest ropes for each catagory I could find.

 

Keep in mind there is more to a rope system than just the weight. Different systems are better for different routes.

[NoahT]

I've had trouble with regular 5mm cord when it gets wet and super stretchy--trying to pull 60m of wet 9.7 single it was close. Unless I went with the 5.5 spectra cord, it seems that my 8mm doubles give the best rap security for alpine. As soon as you start bumping your rap cord up to 6-7mm, I'm carrying the same amount of rope, but not reaping the rewards of having that second one on the way up.

 

With new additions to the family as of late, I'm also sold on the added security of doubling up on my main piece of protection. Doubles work well on a couple levels for me. If set on going rap cord, I'd say cough up for the spectra laced stuff.

[scm007]

Who here actually uses 5.5 to rap on? I'm sure it's perfectly safe but definitely would take some getting your head around.

 

A technical question, is EDK still acceptable for joining 5.5 and a larger rope, say a 9.7?

[genepires]

while that technique looks good, just remember that now there are three things (two knots and a biner) to get hung up on when you pull the rope. And if it does get stuck, you have the skinny static line to lead on the fix the problem. Ultimately, the lack of a lead line to correct a stuck rope is what drove me to double lines. The skinny-ness of twins never made me feel "safe". Just an opinion.

 

I think the AMGA once mentioned from testing that it was not a good idea to join ropes of dissimilar size (by more than a couple mm's) with a euro death knot, or whatever it really is called. (overhand knot?) I know I did 11mm and 8mm bunches of times before I read that though. I don't do that anymore though.

Edited May 12, 2009 by genepires

[spotly]

 

I like it. I am going to try that out next time. Great solution.

 

I've used it a few times. Be mindful of where the biner will travel when you pull. It's easy to get it caught up in a crack.

[assbokk]

look at the knot specs for a double becket bend for joining ropes of different diameters.