Beacon Rock: Closed as of Sunday Feb. 1st

[billcoe]

In Yosemite, where there are lots of eyes (and wildlife biologists) for some unknown reason, the very same birds that had been nesting on El Cap for a few years, moved across the valley...didn't leave a forwarding address either Could be something to do with prey becoming accustomed ??? I know a couple of years ago you added some gravel and support to the scrape area on big ledge to make it world class bird accommodation, so it's not an issue with living in a crappy home. Maybe the bird shit just accumulates enough that they move on? They still sit up there on occasion.

 

Anyway, maybe we can engage Ben to co-ordinate some spotters this winter. The birds are around, you'll see them go flying by here and there all winter and spring, eventually you see some young ones....I think JH is correct that they moved to the East Side: yet as they say: "Your trading results may vary. No representation is being made blah blah, ... Past performance is not indicative of future results "

 

Anyway, Cobra, I hike that trail to the base all the time. I often come back that way from skiing, if I have any energy left, I run or walk to the top (@20 min up and back) but if my quads are toast I love to do a quiet hike to the south side base and just hang out. I find it to be a very spiritual, unique and special place. This is a common occurrence for me.

[JosephH]

Joseph. What do you think would happen if the bird decided to nest on top of Beacon? Say 20 feet from the top on the east side. Would the WSP close the hiking trail then? How close do the birds have to nest to the trail of thousands before the WSP takes the tourists threat seriously?

Kevin, the WSP doesn't close anything, the WDFW has complete jurisdiction and policy control over the closure in it's entirety - BRSP personnel simply hang and remove signs each year and enforce the closure - they have no say whatsoever in policy relating to it or in how it's implemented, i.e. they have no authority to change dates or any other aspect of the closure.

 

I am all for the birds and the closure if I thought it were done in a constructive manner. But to close “just the south face” to 1% of the user group is totally ludicrous. It makes no sense. This is why I call the entire process/thinking/closure total bullshit. If the state REALLY gave a serious shit about these birds….they would do the responsible thing and close the ENTIRE rock. I can see and have always seen that we will not agree on this. That is OK and this is a fine forum to discuss our disagreements.

Look, I understand the whole deal is a bummer, but am not sure which part of "it's not in WSP or WDFW's power to close the trail" gets by you every time I write it twice per year. I'm sure the WDFW would love to have some contractual/constitutional help to give them some legal basis for closing the tourist trail. But hey, it's pointless to keep saying "close the tourist trail!" - if it bothers you that much then go home, get together with Maggie and figure out a legal basis by which the State of Washington and WDFW could close the trail - but know they can't close it on their own.

 

How popular even the attempt at such a move would make climbers with politicians and the public is way beyond my scope and more a matter for AF policy wonks and politicos.

 

Have a mentioned a big thanks to you for going out to monitor out little friends?

I appreciate that. Every minute and dime I spend out there has been, and is, devoted solely towards [legally and scientifically] getting the closure lifted for every hour, day, week, or whatever is possible each year so we (but being a selfish bastard, mainly I) can climb. It occupies enough of my time each spring when I could and should be getting back in shape such that I have to focus on just that - I don't have the bandwidth to worry about the philosophy or injustice involved with the tourist or climber's trails being open or closed.

[kevbone]

OK...so I got the "who" has the power wrong. But you get my point? Right? Would the WDFW close all of Beacon if the birds decided to nest on top? Or super close to the trail? Because if they would not close it……..then I hope you would see the hypocrisy in the closures and maybe point your “awesome” energy into bypassing the rangers and go right to the heart of the matter in Olympia. I don’t care what climbers make themselves look like…..and neither should you because it about the birds….right? The birds are the number one attention getter here right? I also understand there is a balancing act and you are doing your best to not fall to one side or the other……good for you. But…..the undeniable fact remains that the climbers are complete and total scape goats for letting the birds nest successfully year after year when the thousands of tourists flock all over beacon from ALL angles, yelling and screaming and taking pisses in the woods. Throwing there trash off the sides.

 

I don’t think it is pointless to keep shouting at the top of my lungs (on the web) to close the main trail. It’s not pointless at all. It may never happen….but it is not pointless. I must stand by my morals just like you. Bush may never be held accountable for bankrupting this country and stand trial for high crimes and war crimes…..but we still must try to see that that happens. Same thing here. All I ask for is equality for all user groups at Beacon. Right now the balance is not 50 50. It is 99% to 1 %. Its crap and we all know it.

 

[JosephH]

OK...so I got the "who" has the power wrong. But you get my point? Right? Would the WDFW close all of Beacon if the birds decided to nest on top? Or super close to the trail? Because if they would not close it……..

The WDFW would, but as I keep trying to explain, they do not have the jurisdiction to do it and the WSP doesn't have the legal right to close it except briefly and then only under circumstances where public safety is threatened.

 

I hope you would see the hypocrisy in the closures and maybe point your “awesome” energy into bypassing the rangers and go right to the heart of the matter in Olympia.

I see the apparent unfairness of it, but 'hypocrisy' would require volition and choice on the part of the State of Washington and its agencies. That is explicitly not the case here - the WDFW would close the tourist trail if they could, but they cannot. There is no other operative storyline going on here.

 

I have no interest whatsoever in the tourist or even climber's trails status because they are irrelavant to the status of the Peregrine closure. You want to "go right to the the heart of the matter in Olympia", be my guest. At best you might get the tourist trail closed, for which you'd get many thanks from WDFW - but, there is nothing whatsoever you can do or say in Olympia about the tourist trail which will get the Peregrine closure lifted on that basis.

 

I don’t care what climbers make themselves look like…..and neither should you because it about the birds….right? The birds are the number one attention getter here right?

Kevin, absolutely not. The Peregrines have every right to one of their ancestral eyries and to be able to raise their young in peace. There is no aspect of this whole drama that extends beyond the simple fact the State of Washington, along with many others, have decided to value and protect what amounts to a national treasure of a resource in my eyes.

 

How climbers choose to represent themselves in this, or any other matter reflects directly on our collective access to vertical realms - f#ck up, diss private owners and public land managers, show wanton disregard for authority and resources ala Potter and you'll end up with agency personnel unwilling to cooperate with climbers on cleanups, raptor monitoring, early opens, or lifting closures. You'll only end up with more closures and restrictive CMPs. Hey, want to act like children? Guess what, we'll be treated like children in return.

 

I also understand there is a balancing act and you are doing your best to not fall to one side or the other……good for you.

To be honest, I don't do my "best to not fall to one side or the other", I'm simply acting out of total self-interest as someone who desperately wants to climb at Beacon every day I can. But I try to do that within ethical and legal constraints, with respect for everyone involved, with a fact-based objectivity, and without undo hyperbole and invective.

 

I don’t think it is pointless to keep shouting at the top of my lungs (on the web) to close the main trail. It’s not pointless at all. It may never happen….but it is not pointless. I must stand by my morals just like you.

Well, it does up your post count, but beyond that I'd think getting constructively involved would be far more useful if you wanted more than a momentary relief.

 

...but we still must TRY to see that that happens. Same thing here.

I suppose spraying about it here constitutes 'trying', even if a pretty ineffective form of it, but that's certainly your perogative. It just gets annoying and predictable past a certain point - might as well just post links to the previous open or close's rant - or, go to Olympia and plead your case...

[denalidave]

So it sucks to have Beacon closed. Today would have been perfect out there. Would having the trail closed make you feel better Kevin? It sure would not ease the angst of the climbers that can't use the south side. I sure hope they don't close the hiking trail too. I take my kids up there all the time. It is a great place to go on a hike and have a picnic at the top of the SE Corner. Please, don't go on any crusade to get the trail closed too. It won't bring the climbing back and some of us actually use the trail. I can understand being bitter about the closing of the climbing area and the fact that the trail does not close but please don't try and ruin it for everyone else. Let's focus our efforts and getting the climbing open year round, not getting all of Beacon closed part of the year.

[pink]

 

 

or just focus ur efforts on taking it up the ass every year, keep it greezie.

 

 

[ivan]

when the zombie apocalypse comes we'll be able to climb year round on the s side and the zombiefied falcons will have to be shot for the good of the world

 

the party ledge will likely have to be expanded to accomodate our zombie-free vestal virgins

[kevbone]

So it sucks to have Beacon closed. Today would have been perfect out there. Would having the trail closed make you feel better Kevin? It sure would not ease the angst of the climbers that can't use the south side. I sure hope they don't close the hiking trail too. I take my kids up there all the time. It is a great place to go on a hike and have a picnic at the top of the SE Corner. Please, don't go on any crusade to get the trail closed too. It won't bring the climbing back and some of us actually use the trail. I can understand being bitter about the closing of the climbing area and the fact that the trail does not close but please don't try and ruin it for everyone else. Let's focus our efforts and getting the climbing open year round, not getting all of Beacon closed part of the year.

 

Dave….I sure don’t want the hiking trail to close as long as they don’t close the south side to climbing. To me….they are one in the same. Don’t you get it? To close the rock climbing part of beacon but not the major user group is complete bullshit. To me…..when the people who are in charge of the birds make a decision like they do ever y year at Beacon, it shows me they are completely incompetent to have this authority. It is VERY poor decision making with little to no respect for peregrine falcons. Then they make people like me out to be the bad guy because I don’t like it and say something about it. Screw that………I am not the bad guy here. I have a deep and rich respect for all birds especially peregrines, mostly because I have seen them up close and personal for the last 13 years at Beacon. I am not sure I can explain myself any more clearly. Take care.

[JosephH]

Dave….I sure don’t want the hiking trail to close as long as they don’t close the south side to climbing. To me….they are one in the same. Don’t you get it? To close the rock climbing part of beacon but not the major user group is complete bullshit. To me…..when the people who are in charge of the birds make a decision like they do ever y year at Beacon, it shows me they are completely incompetent to have this authority. It is VERY poor decision making with little to no respect for peregrine falcons

Don't you get it? Are you completely f#cking dense? Do you read without comprehension of any kind? Which part of THE WDFW CANNOT CLOSE THE TRAIL so utterly and completely fails you? And you complain about neocons and rightwingers who are completely impervious to fact, logic, or reality? How is this different in any way?

 

Then they make people like me out to be the bad guy because I don’t like it and say something about it. Screw that………I am not the bad guy here.

No doubt, but for one of the more brilliant guitarists I've met, you're not giving off the air of the brightest bulb in the bin either. Look, not liking it has nothing whatsoever to do with it - I DON'T LIKE IT EITHER - what exactly does 'not liking it' have to do with relentlessly unproductive wailing?

[kevbone]

Right on Joseph. Have a good one.

[denalidave]

Yes Kevin, I get it. Just not sure you do... I suppose it's like getting mad at the Oregon State Police dept for not letting me speed on SR 14 in Washington. Maybe that is a poor comparison, but as Joseph has repeatedly stated, THE WDFW CANNOT CLOSE THE TRAIL.

[kevbone]

I find it odd that the people in charge (who ever they are) can close one trail to protect the birds...but not the other trail to protect the birds, especially since the “other” trail poses a much more significant threat to the birds.

[billcoe]

I find it odd that the people in charge (who ever they are) can close one trail to protect the birds...but not the other trail to protect the birds, especially since the “other” trail poses a much more significant threat to the birds.

 

Well, they didn't close the Fremont bridge, a major Interstate Freeway in PDX, either. There have been birds nesting right on the bridge as well. They aren't going to piss off and inconvenience the bulk of the taxpayers DO YOU KNOW WHY? Because if they did, THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT WOULD BE RE-WRITTEN and their asses would be DE-FUNDED and they would have to go get real jobs.

 

That's what you are meaning to say right Kev?. But it's OK to shit on you and me with incomplete or inaccurate science because you and me are little people without significant voices in the halls of power.

 

Right? Did I paraphrase your thoughts accurately? How did I do there? It's been said that it's a game of often marginal or zero benefit to society whereby they force you to engage them, so that they can keep and expand their jobs. Write to your congressmen and senators. No one here can do a damn thing about it.

[ivan]

if the whole world climbed i doubt the s side would be closed - but then, if the whole world climbed, the s side would be like the fucking mall

 

joe is right though in that whining does nothing - feelign powerless does make even rational folks prone to anger and irrational actions though, no?

[kevbone]

Thanks Bill….actually that is not what I was trying to say……but, if you follow your logic through…..then it becomes clear that the powers to be only care about not inconveniencing the tax payers and do not give a shit about our rare birds. If they did actually care about the birds…..equality for the masses would ensue. I have lost all faith in the people in charge who make decision on what to do with our tax money. AKA IRAQ.

 

Either way….we can do nothing about it on the web here. This forum is for discussions such as this.

 

Take care.

 

[denalidave]

No worries, now that Obama is our new president, he will fix everything for us. The birds will get a bailout, the touron trail will get an escalator to the top and the south side routes will get a Starbucks at LOLP ledge, maybe even a bar.

[JosephH]

I find it odd that the people in charge (who ever they are) can close one trail to protect the birds...but not the other trail to protect the birds, especially since the “other” trail poses a much more significant threat to the birds.

You only find it odd because you're having great difficulty reading through your own intractable views. Hey, neither trail is closed "to protect the birds" - where did you get that idea? I didn't say it, the BRSP didn't say it. The climber's trail got closed due to repeated East Face incursions where there are endangered species and an archeological site. This is exactly the sort of bullshit, made-up misinformation that has been rattling around inside the Beacon echo chamber for 13 years and every time I've follow-up on one of them the facts were substantially different than the rattling story I was told.

 

Again, so far you're relentlessly echoing bullshit and not listening to a single fact - and there isn't a single distinguishing difference between you're behavior here on this issue and the Bush adminstration's drumbeat on WMD's in Iraq. And it's only a "discussion" if you're listening as well as talking.

 

Well, they didn't close the Fremont bridge, a major Interstate Freeway in PDX, either. There have been birds nesting right on the bridge as well. They aren't going to piss off and inconvenience the bulk of the taxpayers DO YOU KNOW WHY? Because if they did, THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT WOULD BE RE-WRITTEN and their asses would be DE-FUNDED and they would have to go get real jobs.

Well, I know this is one of your favorite Libertarian lines - I personally couldn't disagree more and any number of species are only with us because of the ESA. If anything, the EPA's funding should be quadrupled and the agency de-loused of industry and Bush wackjobs. But regardless of our opposite views on the ESA, it's basically irrelevant to the current climber's trail and Peregrine closures. I do respect your opinion on the matter, but it's not helping Kevin absorb any of the basic facts of either closure (not that he's really interested in any of them).

[JosephH]

The tourist trail is never going to close.

 

I can't make that blink, animate, or otherwise make it more obvious for you Kevin - but that's the undeniable political and legal reality. And what does that mean aside from the overwhelmingly and painfully obvious? It means there is NOTHING you or I can say about the tourist trail that can help climbers lift the South Face Peregrine closure - NOTHING. There is not a single constructive or productive argument which can be made about the tourist trail that will get you a single additional day of climbing at Beacon. Period. There are no 'facts', lies, echos, or emotions which are going to change that reality.

 

So, you can keep wailing, dening, playing feel-good Never-Never Land games, and wailing against the 'machine' about the horror and injustice of it all. But in the end it's futile and childish exercise that I don't see being effective for anything but hyperventilation and depression. That and it makes climbers look looney and entirely out of touch with reality when it comes to efforts necessary to actually lift the closure.

 

It sucks for all of us, but we have to deal. This many years after the fact, I'd say you might want to consider some grief counseling.

Edited February 4, 2009 by JosephH

[kevbone]

Thanks Joseph. I can't make anymore blink, animate, or otherwise make it more obvious for you that I know the hikers trail to the top will ever close for peregrine nesting. I don’t think is will close. I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy in not closing it. That is all. Nothing more. We apparently disagree, that is cool. That is what is neat about being friends. Have a good one.

[kevbone]

Hey, neither trail is closed "to protect the birds" - where did you get that idea? I didn't say it, the BRSP didn't say it. The climber's trail got closed due to repeated East Face incursions where there are endangered species and an archeological site.

 

So this archeological site has to have a 6 month period to do what? Recuperate?

Endangered species? You mean like the same ones that are found all over the rock?

 

Please tell us what incursions you are referring too? Like people climbing? The argument as to why they shut down the climbers trail is a shame….and you are buying into it. They tell you this and you believe it.

 

IMO they are closing it because they either are getting fat and lazy and or simply do not have the funding to pay enough rangers to police it.

 

I simply do not take what the authorities say at face value.

 

[JosephH]

I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy in not closing it. That is all. Nothing more. We apparently disagree, that is cool.

We do not disagree. The hypocrisy of the situation is in no way lost on me as I keep saying. But your behavior on the matter is counterproductive and simply makes the work of attempting to lift the closure that much more difficult.

[JosephH]

I simply do not take what the authorities say at face value.

Kevin, this will be my last post on the matter. First, there is no "they" and there are no [de-humanized] "authorities" - there is only Erik, Lisa, and David. All are flesh-and-blood, capable of establishing relationships, and I have not heard any of the three utter a single lie or even shade a fact to-date. Part of this whole sad drama is locals continously demonizing and dehumanizing David, Lisa, Erik, and the BRSP staff. It's no different a behavior in any way than BushCo's 'Axis of Evil'.

 

And let's get completely fucking blunt, here - I used to be a photojournalist and took fact-checking my stories dead serious. Guess what? One day I finally got sick of not being able to climb half the year and of all the bitching and decided to get serious doing something about it. So the first thing I did was start digging into all the 'facts, 'events', tales of oppression, and documents around what's gone down since about 1994. Who could have possibly guessed that what I would find is that the only faulty remembrances, deliberate disinformation, convient half-truths, torturous twisting of facts, and even some bald-face lies have been from us climbers.

 

How could that possibly be? Could it have been the ends justified the means? That anything could and should be said to achieve our goals? That facts should shift to suit our beliefs and feelings? Could it possibly be that feelings and emotions got in the way of facts, potential compromises, and legitimate discussions.

 

If I were writing a piece on the history of climbers and this closure it would be a sad one where emotions, grief, and resentment completely overpowered reason poisoning even the possibility of any further constructive dialog. It would be a story of collectively shooting ourselves in the foot out of pure spite.

 

"They" and "authorities" are simply a pathetic devices for not having to actually deal. Hey, I don't know, maybe Bill thinks Erik, Lisa, and David are liars - but that has not once been my experience with them, not once. So, from my perspective - after all the legwork and hassle that I've put into trying to lift the closure, if it comes down to a "you're either one of us, or you're one of them" then sort of deal then my respone is pretty damn simple - fuck you guys and your horses - as I'm sick of this shit.

 

P.S. "Lazy"? "fat"? Maybe if you had even a shred of a relationship or understanding of park operations, you'd realize that the BRSP is grossly under-funded and under-staffed and that the folks who work there are incredibly hard-working in the face of a continuous backlog of work. In fact, they're frantically demo'ing the old trailer park as we speak to take advantage of the few days they have a contractor out to help out with the project. More of the same fucking clueless bullshit as ever...

[billcoe]

Kevin, this will be my last post on the matter.

 

Ha ha! I have $20 on that one!

 

 

I don't know, maybe Bill thinks Erik, Lisa, and David are liars -

 

I was busy raising kids the last go-round, and I would not contradict anyone's version of events as I wasn't there, it was a long time ago, and don't know: but that has not my experience with any of these folks and I wouldn't say that at all.

 

ps, Kevin, you don't have to worry about being packed up and shipped off to Iraq...well, unless you keep yanking Josephs chain and then he might just do it himself.

Edited February 4, 2009 by billcoe

[McGinnis]

I waffled back and forth about coming down due to the weather forecasts, then Sat morning I decided it was a go. Dave and I met Jim and Larry on route; the first and only other party to climb it that day. First time climbing for me in 3 months, since my knee surgery that resulted from a previous excursion with Dave.

 

Seems to me the park service could at least wait until Monday; closure starting Feb 1st or the first weekday after kinda thing. I mean they had the closed sign up by 5:30 pm on Sat!!! And, it looked like Ben was coming to put the sign up around noon, when we were just getting started.

 

Oh well, I had blast!!!

 

I was there too!! Larry actually rappelled over the top of me on Friday while solo on Dodds, so I went back Saturday with a partner. That sign was up super early too... Sorry to have missed you guys!