Well done Uribe!

[akhalteke]

Ft. Benning is not in Panama

 

FYI - SOA used to be in Panama until it got booted in 1984.

 

The School of the Americas (SOA), in 2001 renamed the “Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation,” is a combat training school for Latin American soldiers, located at Fort Benning, Georgia.

 

Initially established in Panama in 1946, it was kicked out of that country in 1984 under the terms of the Panama Canal Treaty. Former Panamanian President, Jorge Illueca, stated that the School of the Americas was the “biggest base for destabilization in Latin America.” The SOA, frequently dubbed the “School of Assassins,” has left a trail of blood and suffering in every country where its graduates have returned.

 

Over its 59 years, the SOA has trained over 60,000 Latin American soldiers in counterinsurgency techniques, sniper training, commando and psychological warfare, military intelligence and interrogation tactics. These graduates have consistently used their skills to wage a war against their own people. Among those targeted by SOA graduates are educators, union organizers, religious workers, student leaders, and others who work for the rights of the poor. Hundreds of thousands of Latin Americans have been tortured, raped, assassinated, “disappeared,” massacred, and forced into refugee by those trained at the School of Assassins.

No shit Jim. Did you learn everything about this organization from the same po-communist website that prole did his "research?"

[Jim]

No. I can point you to some reading if you're interested, however. I was merely supplying some history because you didn't seem aware that the SOW started in Panama, then moved to GA.

[Jim]

 

Um, you left something out comrade Jim. I've made your statement more accurate:

 

Among those targeted by SOA graduates are communist educators, communist union organizers, communist religious workers, communist student leaders, and others communists who work for the rights of the poor.

 

These right wing killers are almost always a direct and proportional response to the emergence of Marxist/Leninist insurgency. Do you expect people to just roll over? You and Prole don't seem too happy to hear about events in Colombia?

 

Gimme a break already. If you think the right-wing death squads trained by the SOA were just going after bad guy commies you're kidding yourself. Again.

 

The FARC is a wacko group - just as unethical and immoral as some of the death squads trained at the SOA.

[akhalteke]

Uhm. Not necessary.

[prole]

Ft. Benning is not in Panama

 

FYI - SOA used to be in Panama until it got booted in 1984.

 

The School of the Americas (SOA), in 2001 renamed the “Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation,” is a combat training school for Latin American soldiers, located at Fort Benning, Georgia.

 

Initially established in Panama in 1946, it was kicked out of that country in 1984 under the terms of the Panama Canal Treaty. Former Panamanian President, Jorge Illueca, stated that the School of the Americas was the “biggest base for destabilization in Latin America.” The SOA, frequently dubbed the “School of Assassins,” has left a trail of blood and suffering in every country where its graduates have returned.

 

Over its 59 years, the SOA has trained over 60,000 Latin American soldiers in counterinsurgency techniques, sniper training, commando and psychological warfare, military intelligence and interrogation tactics. These graduates have consistently used their skills to wage a war against their own people. Among those targeted by SOA graduates are educators, union organizers, religious workers, student leaders, and others who work for the rights of the poor. Hundreds of thousands of Latin Americans have been tortured, raped, assassinated, “disappeared,” massacred, and forced into refugee by those trained at the School of Assassins.

No shit Jim. Did you learn everything about this organization from the same po-communist website that prole did his "research?"

 

Here's some Wiki sources for you, you dumb hick. And if you don't want to read them, you and Fairweather can start your very own death-squad hitlist of the authors.

 

1. SOA Watch. Notorious Graduates. Retrieved on November 16, 2005.

2. George Davies, ‘I’ll take the CIA torture suite’, The First Post, dated August 16, 2006, accessed August 14, 2006.

3. Candiotti, Susan. "Alleged anti-Castro terrorist Posada arrested", CNN, 2005-05-18. Retrieved on 2008-05-22.

4. National Lawyers Guild Calls for Immediate Extradition of Luis Posada to Venezuela, NLG press release, April 20, 2005. Accessed 24 February 2007.

5. the National Security Archive. LUIS POSADA CARRILES, THE DECLASSIFIED RECORD.

6. Paul Mulshine. The War in Central America Continues. Retrieved on 6 November 2007.

7. Bay Area Protesters Sentenced in Georgia CommonDreams.org

8. Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. FAQ.

9. Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. History of the Institute.

10. Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. A Welcome from the Commandant. Retrieved on May 16, 2006.

11. Democracy & Human Rights at WHINSEC

12. Center for International Policy. Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. Retrieved on May 6, 2006.

13. Lisa Haugaard. US Training Manuals Declassified. Retrieved on May 6, 2006.

14. Unmatched Power, Unmet Principles: The Human Rights Dimensions of US Training of Foreign Military and Police Forces 2002 Report of Amnesty International USA (Amnesty International USA). Amnesty International (2002). Retrieved on April 14, 2006.

*Pentagon Investigation Concludes that Techniques in SOA manuals were ‘mistakes.’. SOA Watch (February 21, 1997). Retrieved on April 14, 2006.

15. "Fact Sheet Concerning Training Manuals Containing Materials Inconsistent With U.S. Policy" (August 27 1992). From the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense/Public Affairs Office.

16. School of the Americas Watch. National Venezuela Solidarity Conference. Retrieved on May 6, 2006.

17. School of the Americas Watch. Argentina & Uruguay abandon SOA!. Retrieved on May 6, 2006.

18. School of the Americas Watch. ¡No Más! No More!. Retrieved on May 6, 2006.

19. School of the Americas Watch. Costa Rica to Cease Police Training at the SOA/WHINSEC. Retrieved on May 31, 2007.

20. School of the Americas Watch. Bolivian Military Withdraws from Controversial U.S. Army Training School. Retrieved on February 18, 2008.

21. The Library of Congress. H.R.1217. Retrieved on May 6, 2006.

22. School of the Americas Watch. About SOA Watch. Retrieved on May 6, 2006.

23. SOA Watch. SOA/WHINSEC Grads in the News. Retrieved on March 6, 2008.

24. SOA Watch. Critique of the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. Retrieved on November 16, 2005.

25. Krickl, Tony (February 3 2007). "CGU Student Josh Harris to Spend Two Months in Federal Prison for Protesting". Claremont Courier.

26. Associated Press. US trained Colombian soldiers jailed for working with cartel, says human rights group. Retrieved on August 18, 2007.

27. Paul Mulshine. The War in Central America Continues. Retrieved on 6 November 2007.

28. also in "The New Strategy", Time Magazine, 1965-04-23.

29. [1] Paper by Amy Zalman, Ph.D.

 

Further reading

 

* Danner, Mark (2004). Torture and Truth: America, Abu Ghraib, and the War on Terror. New York Review Books. ISBN 1-59017-152-7.

* Harbury, Jennifer K. (2005). Truth, Torture, and the American Way. Beacon Press. ISBN 0-8070-0307-7. Review, "Highlights parallels in the practices of U.S. government operatives and their local “assets” in the current conflict and in the civil wars that wracked Central America in the 1980s and early 1990s."

* Ireland, Doug (July 22 2004). "Teaching Torture: Despite a lot of talk about torture being "un-American," Congress is quietly keeping alive the School of the Americas, our country's infamous torture-training school". LA Weekly.

* Monbiot, George (October 30 2001). "Backyard terrorism: The US has been training terrorists at a camp in Georgia for years - and it's still at it". The Guardian.

* O'Neill, Patrick (2005 February 18). "SOA protesters headed for prison: Sister, students among 14 charged with trespass at Army school". National Catholic Reporter.

* Priest, Dana (September 21 1996). "U.S. Instructed Latins On Executions, Torture; Manuals Used 1982-91, Pentagon Reveals". The Washington Post: Section: A Pg. A01.

* Quigley, Bill. "The Case for Closing the School of the Americas". BYU Journal of Public Law (20 BYU J. Pub. L. 1) 20 (1).

* Richter, Robert. (1996) Inside the School of the Assassins [VHS].

 

* Inside the School of the Assassins at the Internet Movie Database

 

* Smihula, John. (2003) Hidden in Plain Sight.

 

* Leah Wells (2003). Hidden in Plain Sight Review. Common Dreams NewsCenter. Retrieved on April 14, 2006.

* Hidden in Plain Sight at the Internet Movie Database

 

* Unknown, Author (February 18 2005). "More than an image problem: During the familiar annual processing ritual for School of the Americas protesters this year, new information surfaced about a comprehensive plan devised by the U.S. Army to deflect criticism of the school". National Catholic Reporter.

* Google's new "FEATURE-rich query environment": Kucinich + School of the Americas = MalWare Alert! "proceed at your own risk"

 

* Gill, Lesley. The School of the Americas - Military Training and Political Violence in the Americas. Durham: Duke University Press, 2004.

 

[akhalteke]

The FARC is a wacko group - just as unethical and immoral as some of the death squads trained at the SOA.

 

Ok Jim. I really would like to see your research. Since you clearly have such a first person definitive knowledge of what this group is and what its purposes are... Would really like to see where you are getting your information.

[akhalteke]

Ft. Benning is not in Panama

 

FYI - SOA used to be in Panama until it got booted in 1984.

 

The School of the Americas (SOA), in 2001 renamed the “Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation,” is a combat training school for Latin American soldiers, located at Fort Benning, Georgia.

 

Initially established in Panama in 1946, it was kicked out of that country in 1984 under the terms of the Panama Canal Treaty. Former Panamanian President, Jorge Illueca, stated that the School of the Americas was the “biggest base for destabilization in Latin America.” The SOA, frequently dubbed the “School of Assassins,” has left a trail of blood and suffering in every country where its graduates have returned.

 

Over its 59 years, the SOA has trained over 60,000 Latin American soldiers in counterinsurgency techniques, sniper training, commando and psychological warfare, military intelligence and interrogation tactics. These graduates have consistently used their skills to wage a war against their own people. Among those targeted by SOA graduates are educators, union organizers, religious workers, student leaders, and others who work for the rights of the poor. Hundreds of thousands of Latin Americans have been tortured, raped, assassinated, “disappeared,” massacred, and forced into refugee by those trained at the School of Assassins.

No shit Jim. Did you learn everything about this organization from the same po-communist website that prole did his "research?"

 

Here's some Wiki sources for you, you dumb hick. And if you don't want to read them, you and Fairweather can start your very own death-squad hitlist of the authors.

 

1. SOA Watch. Notorious Graduates. Retrieved on November 16, 2005.

2. George Davies, ‘I’ll take the CIA torture suite’, The First Post, dated August 16, 2006, accessed August 14, 2006.

3. Candiotti, Susan. "Alleged anti-Castro terrorist Posada arrested", CNN, 2005-05-18. Retrieved on 2008-05-22.

4. National Lawyers Guild Calls for Immediate Extradition of Luis Posada to Venezuela, NLG press release, April 20, 2005. Accessed 24 February 2007.

5. the National Security Archive. LUIS POSADA CARRILES, THE DECLASSIFIED RECORD.

6. Paul Mulshine. The War in Central America Continues. Retrieved on 6 November 2007.

7. Bay Area Protesters Sentenced in Georgia CommonDreams.org

8. Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. FAQ.

9. Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. History of the Institute.

10. Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. A Welcome from the Commandant. Retrieved on May 16, 2006.

11. Democracy & Human Rights at WHINSEC

12. Center for International Policy. Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. Retrieved on May 6, 2006.

13. Lisa Haugaard. US Training Manuals Declassified. Retrieved on May 6, 2006.

14. Unmatched Power, Unmet Principles: The Human Rights Dimensions of US Training of Foreign Military and Police Forces 2002 Report of Amnesty International USA (Amnesty International USA). Amnesty International (2002). Retrieved on April 14, 2006.

*Pentagon Investigation Concludes that Techniques in SOA manuals were ‘mistakes.’. SOA Watch (February 21, 1997). Retrieved on April 14, 2006.

15. "Fact Sheet Concerning Training Manuals Containing Materials Inconsistent With U.S. Policy" (August 27 1992). From the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense/Public Affairs Office.

16. School of the Americas Watch. National Venezuela Solidarity Conference. Retrieved on May 6, 2006.

17. School of the Americas Watch. Argentina & Uruguay abandon SOA!. Retrieved on May 6, 2006.

18. School of the Americas Watch. ¡No Más! No More!. Retrieved on May 6, 2006.

19. School of the Americas Watch. Costa Rica to Cease Police Training at the SOA/WHINSEC. Retrieved on May 31, 2007.

20. School of the Americas Watch. Bolivian Military Withdraws from Controversial U.S. Army Training School. Retrieved on February 18, 2008.

21. The Library of Congress. H.R.1217. Retrieved on May 6, 2006.

22. School of the Americas Watch. About SOA Watch. Retrieved on May 6, 2006.

23. SOA Watch. SOA/WHINSEC Grads in the News. Retrieved on March 6, 2008.

24. SOA Watch. Critique of the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. Retrieved on November 16, 2005.

25. Krickl, Tony (February 3 2007). "CGU Student Josh Harris to Spend Two Months in Federal Prison for Protesting". Claremont Courier.

26. Associated Press. US trained Colombian soldiers jailed for working with cartel, says human rights group. Retrieved on August 18, 2007.

27. Paul Mulshine. The War in Central America Continues. Retrieved on 6 November 2007.

28. also in "The New Strategy", Time Magazine, 1965-04-23.

29. [1] Paper by Amy Zalman, Ph.D.

 

Further reading

 

* Danner, Mark (2004). Torture and Truth: America, Abu Ghraib, and the War on Terror. New York Review Books. ISBN 1-59017-152-7.

* Harbury, Jennifer K. (2005). Truth, Torture, and the American Way. Beacon Press. ISBN 0-8070-0307-7. Review, "Highlights parallels in the practices of U.S. government operatives and their local “assets” in the current conflict and in the civil wars that wracked Central America in the 1980s and early 1990s."

* Ireland, Doug (July 22 2004). "Teaching Torture: Despite a lot of talk about torture being "un-American," Congress is quietly keeping alive the School of the Americas, our country's infamous torture-training school". LA Weekly.

* Monbiot, George (October 30 2001). "Backyard terrorism: The US has been training terrorists at a camp in Georgia for years - and it's still at it". The Guardian.

* O'Neill, Patrick (2005 February 18). "SOA protesters headed for prison: Sister, students among 14 charged with trespass at Army school". National Catholic Reporter.

* Priest, Dana (September 21 1996). "U.S. Instructed Latins On Executions, Torture; Manuals Used 1982-91, Pentagon Reveals". The Washington Post: Section: A Pg. A01.

* Quigley, Bill. "The Case for Closing the School of the Americas". BYU Journal of Public Law (20 BYU J. Pub. L. 1) 20 (1).

* Richter, Robert. (1996) Inside the School of the Assassins [VHS].

 

* Inside the School of the Assassins at the Internet Movie Database

 

* Smihula, John. (2003) Hidden in Plain Sight.

 

* Leah Wells (2003). Hidden in Plain Sight Review. Common Dreams NewsCenter. Retrieved on April 14, 2006.

* Hidden in Plain Sight at the Internet Movie Database

 

* Unknown, Author (February 18 2005). "More than an image problem: During the familiar annual processing ritual for School of the Americas protesters this year, new information surfaced about a comprehensive plan devised by the U.S. Army to deflect criticism of the school". National Catholic Reporter.

* Google's new "FEATURE-rich query environment": Kucinich + School of the Americas = MalWare Alert! "proceed at your own risk"

 

* Gill, Lesley. The School of the Americas - Military Training and Political Violence in the Americas. Durham: Duke University Press, 2004.

 

And how many of those have you read Prole? I doubt any but the one you posted. You think I am a hick? Right.

[prole]

Hick is as hick does.

[akhalteke]

You are quoting a retard as a comeback on intelligence? There's that irony again...

[prole]

You seem remarkably well informed about this program for someone who hadn't realized it hasn't been located in Panama for 24 years. How exactly does that work?

[Jim]

The FARC is a wacko group - just as unethical and immoral as some of the death squads trained at the SOA.

 

Ok Jim. I really would like to see your research. Since you clearly have such a first person definitive knowledge of what this group is and what its purposes are... Would really like to see where you are getting your information.

 

You don't believe the FARC is a wacko group? Hmmm..

 

As far as the SOA - just open up a book for Christs sake. My suggestion would be:

 

 

The School of the Americas: Miltary Training and Political Violence in the Americas. Lesley Gill - this one I've read.

 

or School of Assassins: The Case for Closing the School of Americas and for Fundamentally Changing U.S. Foreign Policy. by Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer

 

If these are a bit too inaccessible for you there are some good magazine articles as well.

 

[jjd]

Why Did FARC cross the road?

 

To get to the other side!

 

This is funny, no?

[W]

These right wing killers are almost always a direct and proportional response to the emergence of Marxist/Leninist insurgency. Do you expect people to just roll over?

 

 

Having traveled extensively in Central and South America, it is not hard to notice in speaking to people and simply observing daily life that the majority of the populations are, in one form or another, what you would call 'leftist', although a distinctly Latin American version of social conservatism runs deep throughout. The odd paradigm then is the extent to which many of these countries have been dominated by violently oppressive military regimes over the past 5 decades. One can't help but notice that the return to stable democracies in countries like Chile, Argentina and Nicaragua has nonetheless brought leftists back to power. In some cases, such as Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, the rise to power of leftism was indeed corrupt and has not been positive for the region or the world, but countries like Chile have been a positive example. While you may not agree with leftist politics, from an objective standpoint it seems to be a fact of life that fits with and appeals to the cultures of certain regions and countries. Unfortunately, cultures with such an extreme gap between haves and have-nots results predictably in a rise of extremism on both sides.

 

My point is that simply taking sides in the issue from afar, based on your personal biases and aesthetics as related to politics and social issues, ignores the reality on the ground for the everyday Latin American. If- through democracy and non violent means- the will of the people wants to create a political and social landscape that is "leftist", then that is, in my opinion, their business and their right, not to mention the very foundation of what democracy is supposed to represent. I don't have to agree with leftist politics to make this observation.

 

Violent insurgencies such as FARC and Shining Path are another matter and I don't excuse them or their methods in the slightest. A violent response to them by those in power is also not unexpected, but I don't excuse them either. Excusing state-sponsored massacre of entire villages and rounding up civilians for torture and interrogation, as a 'proportional response' to anything, reduces the issue to a very base level. At that point, one could very easily reverse your above question: given a largely leftist population being ruled by a corrupt, oppressive military junta, -Do you expect the people to just roll over?

 

 

 

[Gary_Yngve]

this op against farc was totally badass. puts the cia and mossad to shame. what cool stuff have they done lately?

 

this op is gonna make a great book/movie.

[akhalteke]

You seem remarkably well informed about this program for someone who hadn't realized it hasn't been located in Panama for 24 years. How exactly does that work?

 

I was the one who pointed that out you tool bag idiot.

[akhalteke]

D'Aubuisson, for example, "took a radio operator's course in the early 1970s. People want to connect the dots and allege the school which taught him how to operate radios efficiently also taught him how to create death squads," Leuer said.

 

I am sure that was in your books too eh?

[Fairweather]

These right wing killers are almost always a direct and proportional response to the emergence of Marxist/Leninist insurgency. Do you expect people to just roll over?

 

 

Having traveled extensively in Central and South America, it is not hard to notice in speaking to people and simply observing daily life that the majority of the populations are, in one form or another, what you would call 'leftist', although a distinctly Latin American version of social conservatism runs deep throughout. The odd paradigm then is the extent to which many of these countries have been dominated by violently oppressive military regimes over the past 5 decades. One can't help but notice that the return to stable democracies in countries like Chile, Argentina and Nicaragua has nonetheless brought leftists back to power. In some cases, such as Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, the rise to power of leftism was indeed corrupt and has not been positive for the region or the world, but countries like Chile have been a positive example. While you may not agree with leftist politics, from an objective standpoint it seems to be a fact of life that fits with and appeals to the cultures of certain regions and countries. Unfortunately, cultures with such an extreme gap between haves and have-nots results predictably in a rise of extremism on both sides.

 

My point is that simply taking sides in the issue from afar, based on your personal biases and aesthetics as related to politics and social issues, ignores the reality on the ground for the everyday Latin American. If- through democracy and non violent means- the will of the people wants to create a political and social landscape that is "leftist", then that is, in my opinion, their business and their right, not to mention the very foundation of what democracy is supposed to represent. I don't have to agree with leftist politics to make this observation.

 

Violent insurgencies such as FARC and Shining Path are another matter and I don't excuse them or their methods in the slightest. A violent response to them by those in power is also not unexpected, but I don't excuse them either. Excusing state-sponsored massacre of entire villages and rounding up civilians for torture and interrogation, as a 'proportional response' to anything, reduces the issue to a very base level. At that point, one could very easily reverse your above question: given a largely leftist population being ruled by a corrupt, oppressive military junta, -Do you expect the people to just roll over?

 

 

 

I don't disagree with too much of what you have said--which is why I was careful to use "Marxist/Leninist" and not "leftist". IMO, the struggles in latin america are more feudal versus collectivist than the politics we so enjoy here and in western europe. The one problem with democratically electing communist regimes is that they tend to cancel subsequent elections. Desperate people often make short-sighted choices. But I'll ask this: To what degree would you resist having everything that you've worked hard for taken away by the hand of mob-rules government and redistributed? Would you fight--or kill?

[prole]

To what degree would you resist having everything that you've worked hard for taken away by the hand of mob-rules government and redistributed? Would you fight--or kill?

 

Once again the quasi-religious fetishization of property trumps human need or democracy. But that's largely irrelevant anyway because in reality intellectuals, community organizers, and human rights workers get murdered for far less in Colombia.

[Fairweather]

To what degree would you resist having everything that you've worked hard for taken away by the hand of mob-rules government and redistributed? Would you fight--or kill?

 

Once again the quasi-religious fetishization of property trumps human need or democracy. But that's largely irrelevant anyway because in reality intellectuals, community organizers, and human rights workers get murdered for far less in Colombia.

 

Sorry Tool, but your talking points are about 8 years old. A US court dismissed The Coca Cola Corporation from this lawsuit in 2003, and in 2006 dismissed the remaining lawsuits against two local Colombian bottlers as being without merit. The UN's International Labor Organization continues to investigate the (as yet unfounded) charges. Looks to me like another case of boutique left-wing hysteria taking on a life of its own. Sorry Prole, but you are just another victim of campus and sub culture media feeding on your personal bitterness (again).

Edited July 4, 2008 by Fairweather

[prole]

Which part of the case is in question here? The union organizers aren't dead? They weren't killed by right-wing thugs? All of this has been fabricated by the "red menace"? The only thing at issue in the courts decision on the civil suit was whether or not the Coca-Cola Corporation was directly involved, which is totally tangential to this "conversation", butt-plug.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

poor prole, always trying to rationalize his Marxist buddies around the world and their fucked up ideology.

[Fairweather]

It's funny, but when I started this thread I knew exactly who it was going to bring out of the woodwork. Prole and Jim...they never fail to disappoint.

[prole]

poor prole, always trying to rationalize his Marxist buddies around the world and their fucked up ideology.

 

Would that be the right to bargain collectively for benefits, wage increases and the like?

Edited July 4, 2008 by prole

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Would that be the right to bargain collectively for benefits, wage increases and the like?

 

no, it'd be the other fucked up shit you and your ilk (just for you!) advocate like wealth distribution, hate-rhetoric, class warfare, and mass graves for your political adversaries.

 

[prole]

mass graves for your political adversaries.

 

Like the ones your FreedomFighters built in El Salvador?