dmuja Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 The US government will soon begin collecting DNA samples from all citizens *ARRESTED* in connection with any federal crime.. Wonder what kind of minor offence nowdays, will become a "federal crime" in the future? Quote
counterfeitfake Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 Don't you currently get fingerprinted any time you're arrested? Quote
STP Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 If it's digital then in lieu of DNA, biometrics could be performed. Quote
fenderfour Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 "you're just jealous because I have more chromosomes than you do" Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 I wouldn't sample my DNA if I were them. It'll just grow into a whole new Tvashtarkatena. Quote
archenemy Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 Wonder what kind of minor offence nowdays, will become a "federal crime" in the future? I believe that a crime is classified under the federal law system when it is either Constitutional or when the State has no right/power to prosecute it. A lawyer can correct/refine this for me if I've misspoken here. I am just at the beginning of my "History of Law" book, so I haven't gotten to the reasons behind what is and is not federal--but I am very interested in this very same question. Quote
archenemy Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 I wouldn't sample my DNA if I were them. It'll just grow into a whole new Tvashtarkatena. Aren't you halfway there already? Quote
archenemy Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 Don't you currently get fingerprinted any time you're arrested? And come to think of it, you don't need to be arrested to be printed. If you were to turn yourself in, you would be processed. You can go to jail w/o ever being arrested. Just a detail. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 This is a very serious question with some disturbing trends and answers. The number of transgressions which constitute a felony has exploded in recent decades, thanks to the War on Drugs, and to a lesser extent to the War on Terror. The long term consequences of having a felony conviction have also increased dramatically during the same period. Any time you here the phrase "crime bill" in congress, watch out. Quote
archenemy Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 But felony does not necessarily mean it is a federal law, does it? I thought felony just referred to the class of laws that were considered more serious than the misdemeanor class. Jeez, this seems basic and I am embarrassed that I don't know this. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 Fuck off, bitch! Actually, you are correct. I should have used the term 'federal offense' (which are usually felonies) rather than 'felony'. Quote
dmuja Posted April 17, 2008 Author Posted April 17, 2008 Today: Sure, why not do it? I mean, we already use finger prints and no innocent people get arrested anymore anyway. Sure, why not do it? It'll help set innocent people free and catch rapists and terrorists. Tomorrow: Sure, why not do it do it for everybody. We already do for those we arrested. If you don't do a crime you got nothing to worry about. It'll help set innocent people free and catch rapists and terrorists. Next year or decade: Sure, why not do it? Sample everyone! I mean, we now know that there is a genetic component to anti-social personalities and that they cause most crime. Their travel should be restricted and they should be placed on a watch list. Near future: Sure, why not do it? I mean. After all, we all know that there is a genetic component to the crime of anti-patriotic thoughts , not buying health insurance and being in debt. And that these people cost society millions. They should be targeted for neutralizing with our new and highly efficient methods. I know, I know, Im just being paranoid. They would never make smoking tobacco a crime or calling a kid climbing a tree a "monkey". We are as free today as we ever were. This program must not be questioned! The program is without flaw! The program is sound! Quote
dmuja Posted April 17, 2008 Author Posted April 17, 2008 BTW, Scientists able to monitor people's thoughts Gee, what could we do with the power to read peoples minds (only years away) combined with all of our banked DNA on file? Yeah, I see no potential for governmental abuse. Quote
counterfeitfake Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 Today: Sure, why not do it? I mean, we already use finger prints and no innocent people get arrested anymore anyway. Sure, why not do it? It'll help set innocent people free and catch rapists and terrorists. That is not my point. My point is that they already take fingerprints, the purpose of which is to identify you and assist in prosecuting you if you go on to commit further crimes. But fingerprints are an imperfect means of reaching this goal. DNA is a more powerful tool that helps them reach the same goal. I am wondering what your point is, your dots are all pretty far out of line with each other and I am having trouble connecting them. Are you arguing that fingerprinting was bad in the first place? Have you been concerned that the government might start fingerprinting everybody? That hasn't happened yet. Are you warning us that stuff that isn't currently illegal might become illegal? Do you just want to alert us that we need to keep an eye on our government? Quote
dmuja Posted April 17, 2008 Author Posted April 17, 2008 My point (generally speaking here) is that we always seem to find excuses to allow authority to implement further efficiency in control over our lives. Its a slippery slope - as they say. We give up more and more of our freedom all the time. Things that were once considered common place behavior are now (or will soon become) "crimes". When they eventually find out that there is a genetically causual path to most of our behavior and conditions etc - as is most likely the case - and when they eventually outlaw many of the freedoms you now take for granted - as seems to be continuously the case - it will be too late. We are to willing to just let it all happen, we're to dumb to care really, and its happening too fast. The trains will run on time that's for sure, but you're grand kids would not recognize what they have lost because we (our generation) will have ensured that they never had it. Quote
denalidave Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 This is just more of the same big brother trend that our society is heading toward. Before you know it, money/credit will be handled with the imbedded microchip and big bro will have ultimate control over all of us. Paranoid? Sure, but everything still seems to be heading in that direction and always in the name of safety for the larger society, rather than the truth of condensing power and control over us. Quote
ivan Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 i really don't think crime or criminal behavior has much link to genetics - it's mostly environmental/social. the law can forbid government or business to use genetic information to discriminate. it seems common sense to make it easier for the state to be able to catch rapists and murderers, who often leave dna evidence of their crime, but nothing else. explain to me more clearly what dangers you see in the government having my genetic code? and how hard is it for anyone to take that from me w/o my knowledge anyway - i leave it everywhere completely unknown to me. Quote
jmace Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 Im with dmuja, stay way from my DNA. Who knows what they could do with it... Quote
dmuja Posted April 17, 2008 Author Posted April 17, 2008 And unfortunately, its how elected officials stay in office. They have to show that they are "doing something", usually "for the kids". Quote
dmuja Posted April 17, 2008 Author Posted April 17, 2008 (edited) i really don't think crime or criminal behavior has much link to genetics - it's mostly environmental/social. the law can forbid government or business to use genetic information to discriminate. it seems common sense to make it easier for the state to be able to catch rapists and murderers, who often leave dna evidence of their crime, but nothing else. It's way premature to say that behavior is not genetic. Shit there are physicists who think they will be able to trace every action (thoughts = electro magnetic actions) back to it's source in time. If the evidence becomes strong enough that someones genetics cost society $ or that we have an easy method and cost effective method for predicting criminal behavior "pre-education" and "genetic manipulation" will follow. All this stuff is just a matter of time really. gotta go back to work..later Edited April 17, 2008 by dmuja Quote
denalidave Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 I think using DNA use to catch the bad guys is a good idea and surely more reliable than fingerprints alone. I just don't like the big bro society we are heading toward and this thread topic seems like one more chipping away toward an Orwelian society where big bro has ultimate control over the masses. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted April 17, 2008 Posted April 17, 2008 explain to me more clearly what dangers you see in the government having my genetic code? and how hard is it for anyone to take that from me w/o my knowledge anyway - i leave it everywhere completely unknown to me. especially in the lower GI-tract of even-toed ungulates of the Ovis genus. Quote
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