First they came after Bardot.

[tomtom]

Then God Created

[JayB]

I agree. Imagine the stress his audience has been under for a great deal of their adult lives. First the hope of the world is extinguished by the implosions east of the Iron curtain, then the options grant is out of the money, then theres the two lost elections, and now the I/O ARM on the 4/3 in Marin is about to reset - gotta take refuge in something....

 

stressed societies = those remaining in rustbelt America - you know, the ones clinging to god and guns because there ain't much left for employment in rural Pennsyltucky

 

So these predilections were absent from these areas when times were good, back in the day?

 

Seems like if there's any outmoded belief that's been irrationally clung to out there, it's the belief in the union-protectionist model. It's telling that his comments concerning "anti-trade sentiments," another of the sentiments being clung to, didn't register with the congregants at this particular sermon.

 

 

[tomtom]

McCain is pretty much a straight shooter. So far, what he's offered is "more of the same" royal clusterfuck policies from the past eight years. He's been pretty up front about that.

 

And thats why he's going to lose in a landslide. IMO, of course.

 

To a candidate from the same Democratic party who lost to GW Bush *twice*?

 

With W, the bar was about as low as it goes.

[JayB]

Plenty of guns and god in Texas, and plenty of jobs as well. How can this be? Quite a bit less of the G&G in rural New-England, and yet there are no jobs.

 

How to explain this conundrum?

[Hugh Conway]

So these predilections were absent from these areas when times were good, back in the day?

 

Based on my experience in Rochester, yes. The city was "progressive". As business and industry fell apart it became much less so.

[JayB]

Why - exactly, did the business and industry there fall apart?

 

 

[Hugh Conway]

Why - exactly, did the business and industry there fall apart?

 

Many ways. Many had big manufacturing centers on shore - Kodak, Xerox, B&L, GM. Those are mostly gone with large loss of employment. Some that were/are headquartered failed to capitalize on the technology they developed(kodak) some grew beyond the location (Gannet) some were bought out (Champion).

 

It's telling that the largest employer in the region is the University & it's associated hospital.

[JayB]

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Quick: What's the capitol of North Dakota?

[gertlush]

Bismarck!

[Hugh Conway]

 

 

[JayB]

Who - Aooonga! Aoooonga! Aoonga! Resize! Resize! Resize!

 

Bottom line is that when the cost of a labor input exceeds its value it's just a matter of time before the people who constitute the said labor input are out of a job. Pretty much no way to avoid that, unless you convince the legislature to pass laws that thwart competition and allow employers to pass the higher labor costs onto consumers.

 

 

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Hey, I can see my house.

[Hugh Conway]

Who - Aooonga! Aoooonga! Aoonga! Resize! Resize! Resize!

 

Bottom line is that when the cost of a labor input exceeds its value it's just a matter of time before the people who constitute the said labor input are out of a job. Pretty much no way to avoid that, unless you convince the legislature to pass laws that thwart competition and allow employers to pass the higher labor costs onto consumers.

 

So what does that have to do with Kodak executives inability to foresee changes in the market for their cash cow?

[JayB]

Businesses come and go. It takes structural impediments to competitiveness to bring about prolonged declines in employment.

 

 

[Hugh Conway]

Businesses come and go. It takes structural impediments to competitiveness to bring about prolonged declines in employment.

 

So what was Seattle's problem in the 70s-80s? We are talking about the same time scale for decay in employment - 20 years. When your economy is dominated by only a few major employers it takes more than removing "structural impediments" to return employment. I realize you need to blame the unions for every ill though, it's ok. BTW: W still sucks and the Iraq war is still retarded?

[JayB]

Seems like Seattle isn't the best posterchild for sustained economic decline, since it bounced back from Boeing's decline pretty quickly and rapidly diversified its economic base. The differences between the two are especially striking when you consider that Boeing was probably even more vital to Seattle's local economy than any single employer in Rochester.

 

And it's not just Rochester. Pretty much every major city in New York outside of the NYC commuter zone has sustained a substantial and prolonged economic decline. Not totally the fault of unions, but when you toss labor inputs that cost more than they earn on top of a tax and regulatory environment like the one that prevails in New York, you have the recipe for the sustained implosion that's going to leave most of the rural Northeast a series seasonal tourist attractions separated by a decaying economic wasteland. As things stand now, that's not too far from the case. When the medical and pension liabilities for all of the boomer-era government employees go critical, that's only going to accelerate the decline.