down jacket question

[goldenchild]

so I'm looking at some down jackets to purchase and noticed these two:

The Catalyst

http://www.thenorthface.com/opencms/opencms/tnf/gear.jsp?site=CA&model=AK8H&language=en

 

Elysium

http://www.thenorthface.com/opencms/opencms/tnf/gear.jsp?site=CA&model=AK9C&language=en

Part of the Elysium description says:

Built to withstand the extremes, a superior insulating down jacket with welded baffles and stitchless build.

 

Exactly what does the welded baffles mean?

Also, most of the 800+ down jackets I've seen are much thinner than the 700 or so fill ones. Am I to assume the 800s are just as warm or warmer and still compress more?

[EastCoastBastard]

hey

"welded baffles" means that the baffles are closed without stitches /thread - this is the new thing in all sorts of clothing/gear. Have a look around - most of the top of the line shells will have some sort of welding on them. It's supposed to be more durable as no threads can come loose, as well as a bit less bulky (marginally so)

 

For your fill count question - many of the companies' websites will have very technical descriptions of what the fill count means and will probably be able to answer your question better than I.

 

Hope that helped

[kweb]

Do yourself a favor and check out http://www.featheredfriends.com/Default.aspx

[Marko]

If you're interested, I've got one of these in a gold color: http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442622282&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302699049&bmUID=1191371416393

 

Size large I think (I'll check tonight), perfect shape, tags are still on it. $280 or so.

 

-M

 

 

[ericb]

Do yourself a favor and check out http://www.featheredfriends.com/Default.aspx

 

Yep for those kinda bux, I'd look at FF.

[featheredfriends]

We'd be amiss not to chime in here.

 

To answer the fill power question: Fill power refers to the quality of the down. Frequently seen values of fill power are 600, 700, 800, and 850+. The easiest way to think of fill power is a measurement of the down's quality. The higher the number, the higher the quality. The technical nitty gritty is that the number represents the volume, in cubic inches, that one ounce of the down displaces when subjected to certain lab conditions that don't really reflect real world use. Products made with higher fill power down tend to be lighter, more compressible, and more durable, since you need less of it to fill the same space that would require more low-quality down to fill. Higher fill power down is also more highly processed, and will not deteriorate as fast as lower quality down.

 

That being said, fill power is only one measurement of how warm a jacket or sleeping bag will keep you. The other important considerations are fill weight, fit, and design. Every single Feathered Friends garment and sleeping bag is made with 850+ fill down, but every product is filled with a different amount of down, or fill weight. For example, our Hyperion Vest has 3.1 ounces of down in it, whereas our -60 bag, the Snowy Owl, has 51 ounces. Other design elements, like the length of the jacket, how roomy it is, whether it is sewn-through or baffled, whether or not it has a hood, and what kind of shell fabric it's made of also determine how warm it will be. The specs on the North Face jackets do not include the important information of fill weight. The savvy shopper will want to know the fill weight of a down jacket before making a purchasing decision. It's an important part of the picture.

 

These jackets you are looking at sure look nice, but consider that you could spend less money and buy a jacket that is hand made in Seattle using 850+ fill down and comes with a windproof and highly water resistant shell (Epic fabric, for example).

 

It's true that welding baffles will eliminate the points of entry for water in the shell of a jacket, but what strikes me as strange is the fact that The North Face chose to make a welded jacket out of material that inherently has poor water resistant properties. The fabric used in the Elysium, 30D x 30D 49 g/m2 downproof ripstop nylon with DWR, will have extremely poor water resistance in the long run (it's just a DWR coated nylon), whereas fabrics such as Epic and Event will maintain a high degree of water resistance for many, many years.

 

If you are willing to spend $330 on an Elysium Jacket that is filled with 700 power down and has limited water resistance, would you be willing to pay $289 for a Feathered Friends Volant jacket that is made with 850+ down and a highly water resistant shell fabric? The Volant lacks sexy welded baffles, but we have a lot of happy customers who have been satisfied with the ten or more years of service they have gotten out of their FF jackets. As an alternative to the $350 Catalyst you might also consider the Hooded Helios Jacket for $269.

 

Drive through, please.

 

FF

[goldenchild]

my featherfriends I sent you a PM

[darstog]

One of the questions I have for FF is what they're thinking about their licensing of Schoeller's NanoTech fabric. Specifically, are you thinking about putting it on some of your garments (you may already be doing this--I'm no longer in Seattle, only can check the web)? And how are the weight/breathability specs compared to epic.

 

I've sort of always wanted a FF jacket but have been afraid of the eVent/Epic debate and the Hooded Helios/Volant with Hood debate.

 

Maybe you'll make a new jacket between the two that has an integrated hood and is shelled with Nanotech? I'd probably buy it and lose less sleep.

 

[montanapup]

Funny thing! FF DOES make a Nano jackt w/hood now. Check it out - the Hooded Helios in Nano and the Helios in Nano - trust me, you'll love it.

[dbconlin]

Is the hooded helios jacket a fixed or removable hood? The website picture isn't working for me. How much is the Nano - that is not on the website either?

[letsroll]

some one should make a sticky for down info. These questions seem to come up several times a year. I did when looking for a bag.

[featheredfriends]

Is the hooded helios jacket a fixed or removable hood? The website picture isn't working for me. How much is the Nano - that is not on the website either?

 

It's a fixed hood. Look for an updated website shortly

 

- Eddie

[safetywear]

oh i was so upset to find quality leather jacket but i couldn't find it but from some where i found that site welding jackets and i got my desirable gloves. i love this jacket what you all think about it.

Edited February 14, 2011 by safetywear

[Cobra_Commander]

I prefer the spamjacket2000 myself...

[Off_White]

Spammer's been banned, someone else will have to take out the garbage though...

[MuchosPixels]

Goldenchild,

 

FF explained perfectly the meaning of down quality and fill.

 

What do you want the jacket for?

 

The jackets you linked are designed basically to be used as mid layers or light outer layer use. One doesnt have a hood which is good for day trips, camp life and city use but not as a main, last line of defense against the cold jacket.

 

Feathered Friends makes some superb jackets with good selection of models for a wide variety of conditons and uses.

 

I basically own 3 insulating jackets, a bomber all conditions stops any weather Down Parka, Outdoor Research Superplume Parka, 320g of 800 down fill, insulated hood, 2 draft tubes and a nice weather resistant Pertex fabric. bomber jacket, would trust it up to 6k-7000M easy, can go over everything.

 

The other, a First Ascent Igniter synthetic (100g Primaloft 1) jacket which is awesome when conditions are not that extreme. Can be used as midlayer in very cold conditions (it isnt too thick). Really good outer layer also over shell but awesome by itself over base/mid layers. Basically windproof. Has a very nice hood. What I take in 15F and warmer weather.

 

For city/town use I have a MH Sub Zero jacket, no hood. Nice, cheap, good quality "beater" jacket.

 

A lighter down sweater is also a good alternative for this and also camp or midlayer use if conditions are not extreme.

Edited February 16, 2011 by MuchosPixels