Zero Degree Synthetic Sleeping Bag Suggestions

[Kraken]

In the market for a new zero degree synthetic sleeping bag, as light as possible. Anything around 3.5 pounds? Think Cascades, Chugach, Ruth Gorge.

 

Any suggestions?

[AlaskaNative]

Primaloft would definitely be the insulation that is the lightest for warmth in a synthetic (Primaloft Sport is a less expensive version than the Primaloft One used in garments, because so much is needed in a sleeping bag).

 

 

Integral Designs has a 3.5 lb 10 degree bag , but the 0 degree bag is 5 lbs. Their ratings are pretty conservative, so you may be fine with the 10 degree bag, especially if you wear something moderately warm inside it.

You could also use their 10 degree bag, and use their Primaliner bag when you think you'll need some extra warmth. It adds a pound, but a lot of warmth, and you can also use it standalone if you only need a 50 degree bag on an outing.

 

 

Other good option would be a Wild Things Half Bag , combined with a Belay Jacket , which they say is good to somewhere around 10-15 degrees, and weighs under 2 lbs (assuming you are taking a warm jacket like the Belay Jacket). They say that if you also wear the Belay Bibs with the Half Bag & Belay Jacket it is good to below zero conditions. The Half Bag and the Belay Bibs weigh 3.5 lbs together, so if you have a Belay Jacket anyway, you are now good to below zero with 3.5 lbs of synthetic.

One big advantage of the Wild Things items mentioned here is they use EPIC fabric, which is much stronger and has a better feel. It is much more water resistant than the Pertex Microlight on the Integrals, while still being more breathable than Gore-Tex.

 

 

Hope that helps, and others may have ideas also.

[AlaskaNative]

Forgot another option, the Sierra Designs Volt.

 

It's 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 lbs depending which length you buy.

 

You could probably slide that Integral Designs Primaliner inside of it for a 3.5 lb zero degree setup also, but you'd want to check the girth numbers.

 

I would also guess that Sierra Designs is being more optimistic in their temp ratings, and they don't give the thickness (oz/yard) of the Primaloft inside, like Integral and Wild Things. But it may still be close enough to meet your specs.

 

Note that the Wild Things Half Bag, Belay Jacket, and Belay Bibs all use 6 oz Primaloft, which is heavier than the zero degree Integral (uses 5 oz Primaloft). Other than your arms being split away from your body making you colder than a bag, I think it's very credible to approach zero with the Half Bag & Belay Jacket, and to go well below zero when adding the Belay Bibs.

 

But the same would be true by sliding another 3 oz of Primaloft into any of these bags with the Integral Primaliner.

 

 

 

One nice thing about Primaloft is it doesn't need nearly the amount of loft that goose down needs, so using it in a tight space or a bivy, or when laying on it, etc, doesn't impair it's warmth as much as down.

 

It is not nearly as durable as down for compressing it into a sack or sleeping on it, so keep that in mind too.

[Kraken]

I appreciate the suggestions so far, but I am looking for a zero degree bag (+/- 5 degrees) that is synthetic. I've already got the half bag set up figured out, but need something that will perform well in cold, potentially wet climates like the ruth, cascades, and chugach in the cold season.

 

I had the NF Snowshoe before and liked it, in fact it was one of the lighter weight bags I've found that qualified. I might even get it again.

[AlaskaNative]

Not at all trying to be argumentative, but I'm confused.

 

I don't understand what it means to say that the half bag is "figured out", but need something for "cold and wet".

 

Are you saying that a synthetic half bag & jacket is *not* good for wet nights, but a synthetic full bag is good?

 

Why is the temp 32 degrees *below* freezing, but wet is going to be the big issue? Is it because the weather may change from night to night?

I'm assuming the bag would be in a dry sack during the day.

Also assuming if it's wet at night the tent is waterproof, properly vented, and the wet clothes are not on top of the bag.

 

 

There's no free lunch here.

Primaloft Sport is your best bet. The oz/yard is basically the only issue, with the shell & lining fabric having little affect on the temp ratings.

 

 

I noticed that Sierra Designs and The North Face both leave out the oz spec for the Primaloft, making me suspicious (TNF even calls theirs Primaloft, when it really must be Primaloft Sport).

That plus those two companies have nowhere near the reputation for quality and severe condition gear as Integral and Wild Things.

 

These are the only bags that meet your required specs, but again, I'm suspicious they are being optimistic about their temp ratings.

Primaloft: TNF Pyxis

Polarguard Delta: TNF Snowshoe

 

I would note again that the Volt with the Primaliner meets your specs, and is a much more versatile solution, and much more likely to be a true zero degree setup.

 

Finally, Sierra Designs has a Polarguard Delta Nahche rated to zero, but it's almost 4 pounds.

 

Again, not trying to criticize, just trying to be cautious and help pick the best solution for an important need.

[AlaskaNative]

Did one more search and turned up these final options.

 

REI Polar Pod, 4 lbs.

 

REI Zenith, just under 4 lbs.

 

Mountain Hardwear Lamina, 4 lbs.

 

Big Agnes Farwell, 3.5 lbs, but like all Big Agnes bags, there is no insulation underneath, just a sleeve for an insulated pad.

Link to Big Agnes page for the Farwell.

 

Last is that Big Agnes sells a Primaloft overbag that weighs just over 1 lb and adds 15 degrees of warmth.

The Lost Dog.

 

[genepires]

you know WAY too much about synthetic bags.

[mccallboater]

Most of the NF stuff is crap, but the snowshoe bag is still good, improving steadily as the years go by. I have a hunch the special forces folks who buy it keep NF honest, but I have no proof.

[johndavidjr]

I suggested that my high-temperature cousin use garbage bags and duct tape one night at about five degrees inside a half-decent tent. He had a heavy down jacket, but I forget whether he had a mattress. To this day, he can blame me for very dumb idea, (but I didn't forget my damned sleeping bag) ....

Edited September 16, 2007 by johndavidjr

[chase986]

hey alaska native, this isnt a site to question people and try and sound knowledgeable, go argue with someone else and just give good sugestions, thanks

[chase986]

hey alaska native, this isnt a site to question people and try and sound knowledgeable, go argue with someone else and just give good sugestions, thanks

[AlaskaNative]

I freely admit that I can be way too much of a gear geek.

 

But what if the question was only asked to help zero in on giving better advice?

 

I was very clear that it was not criticism or arguing.

 

But thanks for the advice.

[Don_Serl]

kraken,

 

for comfort, weather-proofness, lightness, and versatility, synthetic bags cannot compete with the combination of a high quality 3-season down mummy with a synthetic overbag. the whole overbag concept came out of the fertile brain of George Lamb, founder and design-genius of 'Camp 7', way back in the late seventies. the company died in the early '80s, but MEC in particular kept the concept alive.

 

the starting point is that down bags are far more comfortable, warmer per unit weight, faster-warming, and vastly more durable than synthetics. the fundamental understanding is that the primary source of dampness (and therefore the mortal enemy) of a down bag is the body within it. in cold conditions, the moist air percolating out thru the bag will fall in temperature to dew point somewhere within the insulation layer and condense out, wetting the insulation. over a very few days this will lead to collapse of the down, and a highly suboptimal sleeping experience.

 

however, slapping a thin layer of synthetic insulation over the down bag keeps the condensation from happening within the down layer - it happens in the synthetic layer, which gets damp and/or frosty, but it's 'resistent', and overall sleeping comfort and warmth is not affected.

 

i have used this system for nearly 30 years now, in the Himalayas, in Peru, in Kluane, on Denali, and on innumerable Coast Range and Cascade trips in winter and spring. despite the seeming 'insubstantiality' of the combo (currently a Western Mtneering Apache MF - way earlier, a rather basic North Face Gold Kazoo {GTX shell} - first with a Camp 7 overbag, later with an early MEC overbag), i have NEVER been cold, and i have NEVER had a damp down bag while using the system. i repeat: NEVER! bottom line: the overbag turns a 15F-20F bag easily into a weather-proof 0F bag. i've used the system to -25C (-13F) by slipping a VBL into the bag to get it warmed up at the beginning of the nite. and I've used a warmer down bag in the overbag to cope with -30C at altitude in Nepal in the winter - not that I'd ever want to repeat that particular experience.

 

there is a weight penalty, compared to a full down winter bag. a believable 0F down bag weighs in the 3 lb to 3 1/2 lb range. my combo is 1250gm of Apache plus 625gm of overbag, for a total of about 1.9kg (4.2lbs). but the down bag is moisture sensitive.

 

as for 0F synthetic bags, my experience (a fair number of nights out, plus more than a decade as`sleeping bag buyer and de-facto designer at MEC) tells me that anyone who claims to be able to produce such a bag for under 5 lbs is 'stretching the truth'. plus the bag will lose about a third of its loft and a quarter of its insulation value in the first few months of use.

 

the only negative is that MEC has recently kinda "lost the plot" and allowed their 'Penguin' overbag to balloon from 625gm to 850gm. sure, it now has a hood (which i have never found necessary, as minimal moisture condenses in the down hood - but which allows them to secondarily 'sell' the product as a summer bivy bag as well as an overbag), and two half-zips allow them to stock just one product instead of having to stock both lefts and rights. the 'true' concept is about maximizing usefulness in harsh conditions, not compromising a specialist product into popularity. but that's all too typical of the outdoor industry today - 'business' trumps 'functional specialization'.

 

despite my diatribe over 'what might have been/was', the Penguin still is 250gm lighter than George Lamb's original overbag, so we're not quite completely without progress.

 

if you're a mountaineer, you almost certainly already own a 20F down bag. do yourself a favour and try the overbag - there are few things in the outdoors that i am more sure of than the efficacy of this system in scuzzy, cold conditions. blow off the hefty synthetic bag and sleep in comfort in 'the`system'.

 

cheers,

 

p.s. to be clear, i haven't been employed at MEC for a half-dozen years, so my 'pitch' for their product is NOT commercially based...

 

 

[mattp]

The synthetic fill shell bag over a down core bag has worked well for me for 25 years. The moisture ends up in the outer synthetic. I don't use a bivvy bag, preferring to sleep out or to bring a tent, but this system works well in either setting.

[Kraken]

OK, going with down for a zero degree bag. Has anyone used the Phantom 0* by Mountain Hardwear? The weight is right and I have a chance to get a good deal on one. Normally I'd go FF or WM down bags, but I have a good opportunity for this bag.

 

Any personal feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks